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Can 18-Year-Old Adult Men Legally Drink Alcohol On Nantucket?
Odd Query
Not particularly adorable or relevant. In fact, kind of a head scratcher, since it isn't exactly news that underage drinkers often manage to get served.
No..but
What is your point? That he brought this on himself by drinking too much and illegally?
Kind of like if so and so wasn't wearing such and such, he/she wouldn't have been assaulted?
All I can say is thank God for the mystery woman who told that young man to high tail it out of that bar and I'm glad he wasn't so drunk that he couldn't manage to get himself out of there.
My Point Was To Clarify The Victim Was An Adult
The mother telling this story makes it sound as though it happened to her young child, rather than her grown adult son. As bad as the reported sexual assault was, it would have been much worse if the victim was a minor.
18 might not be old enough to legally consume alcohol, but it's old enough to know the dangers and consequences of consuming alcohol. It's the age at which someone legally becomes an adult and must take responsibility for their own actions. It's old enough to know right from wrong — it's old enough to legally consent, but it's also old enough to withhold consent for things you don't wish to participate in.
Adults of every age and gender experience unwanted sexual advances at one point or another. If this man really needed some "mystery woman" to tell him he shouldn't let other people fondle his genitals in public, he must have suffered a dangerously sheltered childhood.
I tried to think of other examples of parents making such claims regarding events involving their adult children, but couldn't come up with any. If I were this man, I would be mortified that my mother went on television to tell this story and make her own assertions about my sexuality. He's certainly old enough be interviewed and relate his original version of the events, instead of having his mommy do it for him. It's as though she's victimizing him again to gain publicity for herself.
I have to partially agree...
I have no doubt that this assault occurred and caused tremendous pain, but the way this played out, mainly on Twitter, has made me queasy...
Heather Unruh initially "reported" this via a tweet on Oct 14. mentioning Kevin Spacey by name but identifying the assault victim only as "a loved one". This was about two weeks before Anthony Rapp's allegations, which lead to others coming forward about abuse by Kevin Spacey. (However preexisting rumors on the internet led the twitterverse to assume pedophilia, pizzagate, Jewish conspiracy, etc). HU's succeeding tweets provided little substance beyond hints that the victim was considering next steps, and pep talks of the "time to be fierce" variety.
Apparently she was interviewed shortly after her first tweet by a Globe reporter, but an article was not published online until Oct 30, after the Buzzfeed report on Rapp's allegations. The article gives HU's second-hand account of what occurred. (The article I saw stated the unidentified victim was a woman, the Globe later issued a correction.) The Globe attempted to contact HU for follow up but she did not respond. It was not until Wednesday's press conference that the victim was identified, but again, the actual allegations were made by his mother on his behalf (though it was stated that the victim did file a report with Nantucket police last week).
Compare this second-hand information to the original Weinstein allegations, and the more recent Spacey allegations, which are the results of extensive reporting and fact checking and victims who spoke on the record. Or Wednesday's Globe article regarding sexual abuse by Berklee faculty.
deleted
wrong comment
...and partially disagree
I think these observations fail to account for judgement severely impaired by alcohol.
Compassion Fail
So you can't imagine why a now 19 year old college student who had (allegedly) been a victim of sexual assault might have difficulty speaking publicly about it? And that he might prefer to have his mother, the public figure, be the one to speak in front of cameras about it?
If you actually read the linked article, the drinks were supplied by the famous actor. It does not surprise me that an 18 year old might not want to seem like he wasn't an adult when offered alcohol. And that an 18 year old might not have any idea how impaired he was or how to get out of a creepy situation.
There's no time for consent or withholding it if someone unexpectedly shoves their hand down your pants.
Question
At 18 years old the man was able to give his consent so the case isn't as clear cut as if he was underaged.
I have no reason to doubt the mother but it is possible the actor asked the man, who agreed, possibly because it was a famous actor. It's still rape if Spacey took advantage of the man when he was drunk, particularly if he bought him the drinks to begin with. But the fact it's his mother making these charges and not him makes someone wonder if he feels violated himself.
Wow
Just..wow.
Wait
Are you saying that I can grab the genitalia of an 18 year old as long as they're drunk, regardless of whether or not they consent?
Obviously, there is a whole legal system to adjudicate this claim, but on the surface, the kid hung out with Spacey, who bought him drinks, then fondled the kid's junk.
what you are saying
Is that you don't know how to read.
Elmer says this:
It is wrong.
This isn't a child.
If this young man victim acted like a child, then he wasn't raised right.
Stop infantalizing the adult victim. He's not a child. He got out of the situation, and now his mother is treating him like a child.
I read it twice before I wrote it
And I just read it a third time. I really don't want to think that Elmer was victim blaming when he wrote that, but it still sounds that way when I read it. If Elmer says I read it wrong and points out my error, I will have to problem eating crow, which I have done many times at the website.
Perhaps when you turned 18 your parents stopped caring about you, but I'm a father who has peers who are grandparents, and my mother still thinks of me as her child. But sure, let's concentrate on the person who is publicizing the charges rather than the man who groped an 18 year old. Because that is the most important thing, not the penis grab.
The Assailant Is 100% To Blame — But Don't Pluck Your Crow!
I very much appreciate you didn't rush to judgement about my judgement of who's to blame. Indeed, I do not blame the victim in any way for the reported assault. As I said elsewhere on this page, no one of any age or gender should be subjected to such despicable behavior! Nonetheless, would you disagree with my suggestion, the victim's foolish behavior increased his risk of being assaulted?
To use an imperfect analogy— suppose you make a decision to drive without wearing your seatbelt. Then, while stopped waiting for a traffic signal, another driver crashes into your car and you suffer injuries you wouldn't have received if you were wearing a seatbelt.
You wouldn't be to blame for the accident in any way, but you made things worse for yourself by choosing not to wear a seatbelt. It would be even more foolish if, while not wearing the seatbelt, you chose to drive on a dangerous highway where accidents are known to occur.
Remember, this isn't a story about a toddler being injured because his mother failed to strap him into a child seat— it's the story of an adult making his own choices of how to conduct his own life. What happened to this man was awful, but on the "Elmer Scale" of awful things, the events as reported do not cross the threshold of being heinous. (would you disagree?)
The young man made a couple of mistakes; as do all of us at his age; and I'm sure he learned a few things from the experience. Most importantly, he made his own choice to resist the unwanted sexual advances and remove himself from the situation. There's no shame or blame in that — it's a choice he can be proud of!
You were almost there
Look, I don’t drink, but to say that when the young man started imbibing he started down a path that ended with Spacey grabbing his manhood it does come off badly.
But, you started by noting who was to blame, so I give you props for putting blame in it’s proper place.
the problem with your imperfect analogy...
... is that we wear seat belts specifically in case an accident occurs. so to knowingly not wear one is to put yourself in direct risk of getting injured if there is an incident.
... we don't stay sober to not get sexually assaulted. and being sexually assaulted is not a natural outcome of being drunk. it is only a natural outcome of somebody being a rapist.
Certainly a bigger question and concern than
58 year old pervs sexually assaulting people.
No, however,
Mr. Spacey should have kept his hands to himself. And we also have the fact that he purchased alcohol for a minor.
I Am In Complete Agreement With You!
I agree too!
Well, except for that "should of" part, if it were the proper contraction I'd be at 100% but that's got me down five or ten percent.
Pardon.
Should have...
Tired.
Spacey
is a piece of work. But, why now? Wht is all this stuff coming out now?
Bursting-dam phenomenon
It becomes way easier to tell your story once somebody else has gone public, especially given the power and fame these men have.
Look at the Weinstein case, where the guy was hiring ex-Mossad agents to go after anybody who might be against him.
So it's incredibly hard to get somebody to tell their story on the record at first. Once the first few brave people do, thought, the flood starts.
Be Brave
Just remember: If you're abused, the longer you wait the more chances the person has to abuse others.
This is also how "minor" aggressions turn into bigger ones when the perpetrator thinks no one will question them and keeps pushing boundaries.
Wrong thing to remember
If you've been abused, you should do what you need to do to take care of yourself. That is all that is required of you.
For some people that will include reporting, for some it will not. And of those who do report, some will report immediately and some much later. There is no timetable that you must adhere to.
Do not add obligations to the load the victim is already carrying (and is almost certainly is part of the long list of coulda woulda shoulda they will live with).
This one won't go away.
Spacey's interest in sex with minors is criminal and his unwelcome pursuit of young men of the age of consent is anti-social in the least and actionable dependent on the facts of the case. I suspect consenting adults is part of the picture too.
WGBH Beat The Press did a segment on media coverage of the Spacey "coming out" story 5 days ago.
Milo may bounce back from stating support for adult gay men's relationships with minor boys -- pedophilia -- not that I agree he should. After being cancelled as a speaker at CPAC he's back on the free speech circuit on the west coast. In fairness, what Milo was talking about I believe was himself being the minor boy.
I'm pretty sure Spacey won't bounce back. I think more and more boys and young adult men will come forward with stories of Spacey's unwanted sexual overtures and assaults.
Was Bill Cosby the turning point, or Fox News or was it Donald Trump's treatment of the women who came forward accusing him of sex-creeping? He's denied it and he's called them liars and he's threatened to sue them.
First women said they were sex-creeped by powerful men at corporate news giant Fox News and then in Hollywood. Now victims coming forward are men.
Times they're changing.
how many went along with Weinstein etc
How many went along willingly and made it for that reason?
I don't know. If they were
I don't know. If they were willing that's their business. Would you rather talk about women who were willing, not that we know they exist, rather than the women who were not?
It worked for Weinstein and Spacey
These guys did it because it worked.
Movies and tv, fashion, music, art -- lots of young women and young gay men who will work for free and even pay to be there . Psychological vulnerability.
Very competitive and little difference between who makes it and who doesn't as a worker. Massive money and power in the hands of dealmakers.
So economic exploitation already built in. Small step to sexual exploitation, because ethics is now non-existent as a way to restrain the desires of (mostly) men.
I think that's changing.
What people who sexually exploit other people count on is being able to exercise power over of their victims in two ways 1. sexually and 2. silencing the people they victimize sexually and silencing the people they attempted to victimize sexually but failed to.
It works because when victims come forward they're are not believed. I think that's changing.
.
duplicate
"Willing"
When there's a power imbalance, as there was between Weinstein and the aspiring actresses, "willingness" is just about impossible to prove, and practically irrelevant. Any executive who has sexual contact with a subordinate is risking their career, whether it's Bill Clinton or the manager at your local WalMart.
a distraction
I've never been in an interview with a women and wanted to have sex with her. I was just responding to what I considered to be a distraction forthrightly.
No disrespect meant to WGBH,
No disrespect meant to WGBH, but I can't remember the last time I watched anything on Channel 2. I'm too busy watching the ID channel or the Bruins. Is BTP still hosted by Imily Wooney, the lady who has ridden the T only once in her life? Yes, Imily, you can get to WGBH on the T. Try the 86 bus, or Boston Landing, almost forgot.
Mitchell Garabedian
sexual assault ambulance chaser.
You think he exploits victims?
f**k you, you're an idiot.
garabeadyeyes
have you ever had to sit in a room with him? ever had to answer personal, invasive questions over and over? ever had him suggest that you repeat the same graphic details as often as possible because it would sound better for the ca$e? f**k you anonymous
I've never been prepped as witness
I've never been prepped as witness for a civil action but if I was sexually abused and I wanted to hire an attorney to represent me, I'd consider hiring him.
When victims come forward they are often accused of doing it for the money too, not for justice, which is a shitty thing to say to victims or survivors however you prefer to refer to them.
The Globe with some assistance from Garabedian's broke the pedophile priest scandal wide open, which for decades Mass DAs failed to crack.
Agree
Garabedian is the east coast Gloria Allred.
I am sure
I am sure that Father Geoghan, et al agree too.
Hostility toward Gloria Allred too
What's that about? She's represents women who come forward for report how they were objectified or abused in so doing risk shaming and victim blaming.
Am I the only one bothered by
Am I the only one bothered by Heather adding "straight" to the description of her son? If he was gay would it have all been ok or less traumatizing? I don't know maybe I'm just sensitive being a gay woman that was messed with as a kid.
I knew somebody would get ticked off about that
Maybe he didn't come forward because he didn't want people to think he was gay.
The Assailant Played The Gay Card To "Explain" His Criminal Acts
This person has been widely criticized for proclaiming to have the Gay sexuality when the accusations of his criminal sexual assaults were made public. There are countless recent articles about why that was an additionally despicable thing for him to do.
If the victim succumbed to the assailant's advances, and went off somewhere to willingly have sex with him, then yes, some people might think he's Gay. But that's not what happened. Regardless of what the "mystery woman" said, the young man knew he wasn't sexually attracted, so he used his own two feet to distance himself from the other person. That's what most adults do, regardless of their sexuality.
The mother added her own filthy patina to the already unfortunate tale by proclaiming to the world her son does not have the Gay sexuality. Her presumption being the assault would likely cause him to "turn Gay", so it was important for her make a public denial. It's a backhanded form of Gay bashing — if this woman had a child who actually was Gay, she'd probably be just as quick to disown them.
Perhaps saying her son was
Perhaps saying her son was "star-struck" also didn't help his case. Kevin Spacey may be accustomed to this sort of life
She's Obviously Not A Very Good Communicator
One might imagine she raised her son by informing him of just a few sensational topics, repeating the same things he was hearing at the same time by everyone else in town. Rather than providing complete information about even simple things, she only teased hints— over and over again— always claiming she'd provide more details later. By spending all her time talking about mostly trivial and irrelevant issues, she never told her son the really important facts people need to live a practical life.
You'd think if nothing else, he'd have learned people in show business sometimes have a false public persona that masks their true character. It would certainly be a disservice to her son if she taught him to value celebrity façade more than the person within.
This is very sad. On behalf
This is very sad. On behalf of the kid and his family I hope they get some measure of relief by filing the police report, but you know that a proceeding (I.e. a criminal complaint and trial) will cause them a lot in attorneys fees, intimidation, anguish etc.... Bottom line, they should do what they need to do to enforce their rights against claimed injustice. No parent should ever want to have to go through this though. Sad.
What makes me uncomfortable here
I am a mom of boys, all parties of similar age.
I would be pissed if somebody did this to my son.
I would be pissed at my son for going out drinking and letting somebody buy him drinks, and I would shred any fake ID or read his brother the riot act for loaning him an ID.
I would be pissed at the bar for serving him.
I would be happy to help my son press charges and hire a lawyer
However, I would not:
pressure my son to file charges
hold a press conference!!!
Make the rounds of the blabbering circuit
discuss the case on social media
All of the things I would NOT do that Unruh has done reek of "This is about ME" not "this is about justice for my son". Even public figures can file charges and refuse to comment about it. She is poisoning the potential jury pool with her attention seeking. She isn't helping her son, and I almost wonder if she pushed him into this for her own reasons.
Understanding that those reasons may not entirely be selfish - she does act like this is a proxy war for every time she's been groped and abused.
All the same, her crusading makes me feel sad for her son, who should get justice and not a grandstanding self-absorbed momfest out of this.