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Cambridge man charged with pulling a knife on a jogger for not wearing a mask
By adamg on Thu, 04/30/2020 - 1:43pm
Wicked Local Cambridge reports. That might explain why, in her announcement about free masks last night, Cambridge Mayor Sumbul Siddiqui urged residents to leave mask enforcement to police.
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Comments
I know the guy shouldn't have done that
But I still can't wipe the grin off my face.
Preppie/yuppie scum, just GO AWAY.
Who are you calling preppie/
Who are you calling preppie/ yuppie scum!?? The jogger or the parent?
Not to poke at this...
But if they're going to use the very gender-specific binary terms "man" and "father" for the alleged perpetrator, why blur that for the alleged victim?
From the article (maybe
From the article (maybe updated since you read it?), emphasis added:
- https://cambridge.wickedlocal.com/news/20200429/updated-cambridge-man-ch...
... Seems pretty gender (and age) specific regarding the jogger/alleged victim, now.
As to why an earlier draft may have been vaguer: Perhaps that info wasn't yet available to Cambridge Chronicle? Police (and journalists) tend to prioritize reporting info about alleged perpetrators over that of their alleged victims.
What?
jogger = preppie/yuppie scum now? That's wild.
The story provides no info about the demographics of any one involved other than the two young kids.
Sometimes it seems like the people who really miss using blatant racist language like back in the day are just left grasping as straws to make sure people they don't like are other somehow, vs just being jerks or whatever. You're telling on yourself FBC.
Unbelievable.
Preppy because runners exercise and are in good shape
Yuppie because runners can afford rental prices in the city.
It's sad, people always fault runners because they are 'huffing and puffing'... when, unless sprinting...a good runner's heart rate is going to be around 160bpm.
And that heart rate is much lower than the average person when indoors and walking...
So they breathe much less hard...in places where the virus is more transmissible.
Whatever
Wear a mask. I don't want to breathe whatever you're ejecting from your lungs.
I think you need to double
I think you need to double check your numbers for that bpm—160 is going to be in the vigorous activity range for basically everyone, runners included. No one's touching 160 just by walking, unless they're incredibly out of shape (as in, not just "watched too many episodes on Netflix" but "something very medically wrong with this person").
Jogging = exercise
Please call 911 if your heart rate is “much higher than 160” while walking in your house.
The reason people jog is that your metabolism is higher. Your heart rate goes up. You breath harder.
I’m not saying joggers deserve knives, but it is a higher risk of transmission than someone walking.
Whether exercising or not, it is selfish to not wear a mask to protect those around you.
Your numbers seem to be way off
"That heart rate is much lower than the average person when indoors and walking"
Can you provide a reference for the idea that average person indoors has a heart rate 160+ just walking? I'm 58, my resting heart rate is between 60 and 70. My heart would be pounding out of my chest if my heart rate were 160 just indoors and walking.
Not just me
I think they meant to say the runner's HR is lower than a non-runner's indoors and walking, but not that either's is 160 in that circumstance.
I don't know if that's true, either. My resting. HR is also 60 - 70, and I'm way older than 58. It's always been on the low side, and I've never been a runner.
If your heart rate while
“indoors and walking” is above 160, you should go to the ER.
160 BPM is the high end of
160 BPM is the high end of the safe heart rate spectrum. Your heart rate will only hit that if you’re doing very strenuous exercise (like jogging when you’re out of shape). In shape joggers heart rates hover around 110 - 120 or lower.
Regardless jogging outdoors doesn’t transmit much because you’re outdoors and coming into very little and brief contact with others, regardless of how heavy you’re breathing.
The 80s called...
They want their preppies and yuppies back.
Strap in
It's gonna be fascinating to see what society looks like after a year of this.
Now, how would that work?
You pull the knife on the person who's demonstrated capable foot speed. Good bid. Let's say the jogger is armed with a knife as well. Of course, they would be wise to not try to pull it right away, so they comply, and distance themselves.
Then what? Maybe the jogger has jogged away in the other direction...but the assailant remains in the jogger's line of sight. If I'm the jogger, maybe I wait the assailant out, then chase them down and stab them in the back.
I've never been in a fight with a weapon, but what's the logic of merely displaying a weapon, especially one as easily obtainable as a knife, and then not following through with an attack? Even Jack Bauer said it once on 24: "The next time you pull a gun on me, you better be ready to use it."
And to do it in front of children is a whole other level of stupid. When I get elected Governor, I'll pay people like that to get vasectomies (the carrot, not the stick, you see) to prevent this whole awful incident from, at a bare-ass minimum, happening in front of the assailant's children.
Sir,
this is a Wendy's
Simpsons
"Sir, teasing the order box is a felony."
Um...
Don't you mean the victim's children?
I call it the magic wand theory
It goes you display your weapon and the person magically stops whatever they are doing. Lot's of people believe this theory but in reality it seldom works.
Chimps will Chimp Out
I hope this triggers a full child safety audit.
We had a couple of jackasses in my neighborhood who thought having kids was a great way to "justify" violent expression as a way of salving their deepest fears while retaining their man cards. I GETS TO BE VIOLENT 'cause I'm JUST PROTECTIN MAH KIDS!
At least one is doing time for DV now, because violent assholes seem to find lots of reasons that magically entitle them to be violent and not bother working on those pesky self control or risk assessment skills.
Magoo sez
Magoo abides just like The Dude. And like The Dude, why can’t we all just get along and have a few White Russians while we are at it. Note: Magoo is not being racist. A White Russian is a beverage of the imbibing kind. Magoo.
Threatening someone with deadly force while out with your kids?
That is beyond stupid level! That guy is an idiot and deserves to get railroaded. He is lucky the incident didn't escalate. DSS should be called as well.
Boston drivers do this all
Boston drivers do this all the time. Menacing pedestrians and anyone actually obeying rules of the road.
Live and Let live
If you're scared or "courteously conscientious" wear a mask, if you're not scared, but "courteously" conscientious," don't give into peer pressure. Simple.
Just wear the mask.
Wearing the mask, scared or not, courteous or not, does not mean a sacrifice of some precious liberty. You're not gonna "show the Man" by defiantly parading around with your mug out in public spaces. Just do it. Show some patriotism, some respect for health care workers and first responders, some solidarity with you community by doing the right thing and don't be an ass. Its not forever*, besides, if you're worried about your freedom to not wear a mask as part of a slippery slope, you've not been paying attention to a WHOLE bunch of other things that have happened in the last 50 years.
And for the tough guy, you know what they say, don't bring a knife to a 5k.
Why?
There is no evidence that the virus passively transmits easily or at all when outdoors. All the science of how the virus transmits indicates that the virus dissipates so rapidly that it is impossible or almost impossible to transmit outdoors unless possibly speaking to an infected person while violating social distancing guidelines. The CDC and the WHO recommend no such precautions. This is a policy implemented by someone that lacks the intellectual, legal and moral capacity to impose such an order in a public space. What's next? Mandatory inner tubes when swimming? Wrapping our kids in bubble wrap at the playground? Close Cape Cod in summer until the sharks leave?
Why is it that all the progressives lambaste conservatives for not following the science regarding global warming but do the exact same thing with this charade, science be damned?
This virus spreads like a
This virus spreads like a number of its cousins, and masks have proven to be somewhat effective at controlling the spread of things like flus, colds, etc. There's a reason why so many people in Asian megacities started wearing masks after SARS, and it's not because their governments ordered them to do so.
If long-term social proof doesn't do it for you, then how about the fact that when you're outside in a populated area, you can try all you want to social distance but you never really know if someone else is about to walk around that corner at the same time as you and you'll find yourselves face-to-face, each wondering if the other is infected?
It's a mask, dude. Just wear it. It's really not a big enough deal to justify all this righteous pontificating and thumbs-up-collecting. You're mad about it? Fine, noted. Wear it anyway.
OFFS
just wear the goddamn mask
don’t be so friggin selfish
wowza
Science
Much?
It's right in your own text
The reason for wearing a mask is right in your own text.
Which is exactly the scenario that happens several times per block on any reasonably crowded street: people pass close to each other. Some of those people are speaking, or jogging and breathing hard, or, ffs, actually coughing or sneezing.
Viral load
The whole point is you have to be in the conversation for enough time to get enough virus to get sick. Walking or running by someone while outdoors is not likely to meet that threshold. In fact, still TBD, but a small infection could lead to a mild case and antibodies possibly giving you some level of immunity. True for many other viruses, could be for this too, but not yet known.
Being in an enclosed space for a prolonged time (think train or restaurant) changes that equation dramatically.
Rules/guidelines that are clearly helpful (stay home, social distance, wash hands) should be followed. Pandering politicians that make crap up with no scientific basis should be ignored.
Your mild infection could ...
... in all probability lead to a severe infection and possibly death for several people you come into contact with when you are not wearing a mask.
I think you know that.
Use sir google
and educate yourself on the difference between viral load and infectious dose before acting all Dr. Chloroxy.
Stevil
There is much we do not know about this virus, Stevil. What we know now about how the virus reacts and interacts can change tomorrow. And it has and will continue to do so.
The issue is, is that the virus can linger in the air. And for that reason, I feel more comfortable/safe wearing a mask outside when I walk and/or jog. But I do it mostly because I don't want to potentially infect others.
I'm not sure why you are so hostile to mask wearing in public. Perhaps you don't like being told to do something by those "pandering politicians?" Whatever. Just put a mask on when you go outside, ok?
Not happening
No need. You want to, I could care less one way or the other.
i gotta say
this is such a weird fuckin thing to hulk out about. putting a mask on is right up there with putting the toilet seat down after you pee. you’re acting like someone is... well, asking you to put the seat down after you pee
Stick to your day job
You go be the glorified slum lord, and the public health community will continue to issue public health advisories based on science that include wearing your goddamn mask.
That's the point
This came from the mayor of a couple of towns. Not a public health authority. Neither the federal government, the state government nor the largest city in the state have such guidelines.
You want to wear a mask, I don't care.
Mayors have the authority
The mayor has the authority to make the decree, but the impetus came from the from the public health department.
I know you avoid contact with kids, but man do you argue like a child.
Really?
Can you cite the legal background on that? There are people questioning the constitutional authority of even the president and governors implementing mask rules in public spaces, much less Podunk progressive mayors.
While the public health department did have to sign off on this, where is the evidence they were the impetus for this rule, not the politicians and unelected city manager who control their employment status. If the Health Commission did this, they should be fired as the science would point to the opposite conclusion.
not so fast
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2190272/
in 2003 researchers found wearing a mask to be more effective than washing hands.
even if it doesn’t track 1:1, how is this worth fighting over?
Even faster
Quoting "High viral load and high viral infectiousness probably drive virus pandemics" and based on what I read in your link, none of these tests were conducted outside and none involved "walk bys, run bys or bike bys".
Why fight over this - what's next? I'll tell you - I looked at the Cambridge rules and they also include hallways of multifamily units like where I live. Basically they are telling people on private property to mask up if they can't socially distance (definitions needed). This is the slippery slope. What if they start mandating contact software on your cell phone and track your whereabouts? What if they start spying on you to see if you are wearing a mask by taking over your camera? Extremes to be sure, but at some point we have to draw the line on government intrusiveness, especially where it does nothing to "flatten the curve" which is their stated goal.
Per my note on Gov. Baker's order today mandating masks, I don't have a problem where they a) the constitutional right b) the jurisdiction and c) scientific evidence. The state has health jurisdiction over businesses and of course government buildings (at least some). But there's a line and places like Somerville and Cambridge have crossed it.
(and some of this is literally already in place in other countries - Israel secretly put contact software originally used to track terrorists on citizen's phones and China is putting cameras on people's doors)
i think it’s pretty easy to
i think it’s pretty easy to tell what’s done in good faith vs. the actions of an oppressive government. like i said before, this study isn’t a 1:1 comparison, but you also have a ton of heavy lifting to do to demonstrate the leap from requiring masks to mandatory contact tracing.
speaking of government overreach, i’m sure you have similar thoughts about the federal government mandate via executive order to keep the meat industry open. just checking for consistency.
Legal background
Well, the state AG just said they have the authority. Now you can argue with her.
Exact words
"up to the municipality to do what is reasonable to protect their residents"
When the known science indicates that there is no evidence that their requirements work (and in fact the science points in the direction that there is in fact no benefit), it is not reasonable to make rules for the sake of making rules.
Note - I am perfectly fine with Governor Baker's indoor orders in stores, government buildings etc. because there is evidence that this could be effective. My issue is with outdoor mandates and mandates on private residential property (yes the Cambridge rules include that). By itself, small thing indeed. But government incrementalism is guaranteed until it become overbearing.
Legal background
Well, the state AG just said they have the authority. Now you can argue with her.
So if the AG says...
The Commonwealth has the legal authority to load you up in a railcar in order to transport you to a virus protection camp, you'll automatically agree with her, too?
Are you OK?
Do you have a high fever? Feeling dizzy? Maybe you should lie down for a while.
Virus doesn't know it's outside
In crowded parts of Somerville and Cambridge (two cities that are requiring masks), the number of people who pass within six feet of me, and the amount of time they spend within six feet of me, is pretty much the same on the sidewalk as it is inside the supermarket. The only conceivably significant epidemiological difference is wind and sun. It's not always windy and not always sunny.
The virus doesn't know whether it's inside or outside. If you're going to wear a mask in a crowded supermarket, then wear one on a crowded sidewalk. This is not a particularly complex concept.
But it does
Humidity, wind sun and more are different inside and outside. Plus you and others are touching things in the market. One study I read showed the number one (by far) means of spread was within the household ( are you wearing masks and distancing at home?). Number 2 was in transit systems, bus train, subway etc. Still anecdotal, but recirculation of infected air by ventilation like an AC unit without a hepa filter should be a suspect.
We don't know
You're right. There's absolutely no proof that the disease spreads outdoors.
We obviously don't know how contagion works. Were kind of feeling our way as we go, as evidenced by the consensus scientific belief having moved from "person-to-person spread unlikely," to "requires sustained contact with an infected person," to "community spread is happening, looks like it's large droplets on touchable surfaces," to "oooh, looks like fine aerosols may be implicated too."
We. dont. know.
There is a nonzero chance that widespread mask-wearing, by people outdoors in crowded places, will slow the spread of the disease. Maybe the effect is tiny at the margins. Maybe everyone in Massachusetts wearing a mask 100% of the time they are outdoors in a crowded city for the next three months would only eliminate, I dunno, 200 total cases and 5 deaths.
Wearing a mask imposes almost zero cost on the wearer. Yeah, it's hot and slightly uncomfortable. To save 5 lives you wouldn't wear one? Even if there's no incontrovertible proof that it works?
No
There are things all of us do that create additional risk of death. Driving over the speed limit or even at the speed limit. Crossing against the light. Causing pollution that harms the environment and ultimately perhaps a developing child. We'd all be hiding under a rock clothed in bubble wrap if we did that. One of the things I hate about all of this is it has stolen our humanity. We can't just be people. From a public policy standpoint we are doing this to flatten the curve. Not prevent every last infection. Life is for the living and time is short. We need to get back to living, even if it kills us. I'm at elevated risk of that, but if you don't want to wear a mask, I'm fine with that too. I'm still going for my walk on the esplanade. If you don't want to take that risk, just go walk somewhere less crowded. Plenty of space that's wide open in the rest of the city.
(Bob-i find you about the most reasonable poster out here and appreciate the discourse. I just truly disagree with these policies).
My mother and MIL, who live
My mother and MIL, who live in different states, have both mentioned having trouble with runners not wearing masks and/or not being respectful of social distancing. My mom now doesn't go out for walks very often because of rude joggers. She's in her 70's, has COPD and is doing her best to stay active. Sad that people are so self-centered and heartless.
Had to laugh the headline.
It was so wrong but it must have felt so right.
Why would maskless joggers
Why would maskless joggers run toward little kids porentially infecting them with a deadly disease? Selfish. Pulling a knife on the arrogant jogger was also senseless.
Cambridge is now requiring
Cambridge is now requiring face coverings at all times in public spaces, so the jogger shouldn't have been without one, but he claims that he was going to go around these people to begin with:
- https://cambridge.wickedlocal.com/news/20200429/updated-cambridge-man-ch...
Mike Pence was jogging
Mike Pence was jogging through Cambridge?
It doesn’t get
Any more Cambridge than this