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Massachusetts working on a Covid-19 'passport' of its own
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Congratulations, Charlie
Let me be the first to praise you for your bold leadership in doing something that you were asked to do in April, when other places were already starting to do it.
Charlie had to study the idea carefully.
Lots of task force reports to read.
Even before that!
We had months to prepare for an eventual vaccine rollout and what that would look like. The time to study vaccine passport options and have one available by the time the vaccines were out was then. Still, better late than never I suppose.
Don't go there
The appearance of actual vaccines was not what we were told it would be.
Actually, states were told very little about the distribution systems and priorities by the Treason Administration.
Trump and Jared the Damned to Eternal Hell for his Crimes Against Humanity caused a lot of plans to amount to very little when they shrouded "plans" in secrecy and very little vaccine showed up, and was never the amount promised even then.
Notice how everything got sorted once there WAS ACTUAL VACCINE AVAILABLE? Yeah. That.
I was in that circus, I was that monkey.
More than one thing can be true at the same time
1) The Trump administration screwed vaccine distribution up to a fare-thee-well.
2) Massachusetts had a fully worked-out mass immunization plan on the shelf ready to use, because, even before COVID-19, the possibility that there might in the future be a disease outbreak that needed a rapid mass vaccine response wasn't a foreign idea, and we have functioning public health agencies who did their homework. And Baker decided to scrap the existing plan and hire, you know, his friends, the smartest guys in the room, to make up a new one from scratch.
Not exactly true
We did not have a functioning infrastructure at the local level, and that changed everything.
When cities and towns put in for vaccine, they had difficulty administering it due to the mask and distancing restrictions - something that wasn't factored in. Furthermore, it was a rags or riches situation - some cities and towns had enough staff, facilities, and resources, and others had a 30 year old refrigerator and hadn't funded half their positions in years.
You saw the paper. I lived the reality.
Maybe I'm missing something here
Why would you have to know the exact distribution etc of the vaccine to know that at some point we would want a system where people could quickly and easily display whether they were vaccinated or not? That's the point I can't get - we were debating vaccine passports back in Summer 2020, so it's not like this wasn't on anyone's radar. I don't see why it's not fair to say that Baker should have had a plan set up for this (at least in the general details) even if the exact specifics of vaccine distribution weren't known.
Sign me up!
I will be first in line.
You might already have it
If you got vaccinated at CVS or another retail location, there's a good chance that retailer is already participating in one of the "passport" programs and you can sign up on their website.
When government tells me not to worry
That's when I start to worry.
...
The "government" isn't the one telling you not to worry here.
From Joe Rogan's lips to your ears
Let me guess, you'll do your own research?
Joe Rogan?
I haven't listened to that man since his terrible season hosting The Man Show, save for sampling a few minutes of his podcast. I never found him funny or interesting.
Voluntary now, until after
Voluntary now, until after the next election for Governor.
Just as it is voluntary to go to a restaurant, gym, bus / T, store. You don't NEED to go to these places. Its just voluntary.
MA has a vaccine compliance rate for Whites 77%, Black 70%, Hispanic 64%, Asian 83%
Take those numbers and when (there will be a when, the Gov does not invest in project and not use it) a passport is needed to enter public establishments, is the MA gov willing to ban non-vaccinated people from society? What if people just dont want the Government to track where they go, what they do, and the status of their health?
This is NOT a anti vax post. I think everyone should get vaccinated. But to what end should the Government control and track our lives?
https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covi...
I for one welcome our QR code overlords
Are people who aren't vaccinated and don't a medical exemption going to be banned from having food delivered, making money from home, receiving telehealth visits, or receiving in-person emergency medical care? If not, then this is fine with me. People don't have the right to go around infecting people, and it appears they'll still be able to have their basic needs met. If they want more "freedoms," they can get vaccinated.
I get distrust of the government. Really I do. My main gig at the moment is as an expert witness against a state agency that pretty much does whatever the fuck they want, particularly to BIPOC and disabled folks. But "government=bad" oversimplifies things. Using my personal experiences as an example again, I bill my services to another government agency, which exists to make sure people are adequately defended against state agencies doing whatever the fuck they want! Wait, does that mean the government is good or bad? Or could it mean that it's run by humans, and there are parts of it that do whatever the fuck they want, and other parts that do have the public's interest mostly in mind, and exceptions in every part? And maybe we should have a healthy distrust of it and think critically, but also realize that the vaccines weren't created in secret by "the government" and trust what independent scientific organizations are overwhelmingly saying.
You are equating people not
You are equating people not being vaccinated with being infected and infecting others. That is not accurate.
And if you are vaccinated the chance that an unvaccinated person infecting you is low, just like the low probability of a vaccinated person infecting another person.
What about people with immunity as the result from already having and recovering from COVID? Why does a passport to allow access to society depend on the vaccine but ignore other forms of COVID immunity?
If we were to be scientifically accurate the passport would include those with antibodies and natural immunity to COVID as well. Otherwise this is all controlling society and not based in science.
People can get Covid twice
Immunity from already having and recovering from Covid doesn't provide lasting immunity. It does increase the effectiveness of getting vaccinated afterwards.
Plague rats
Plague rats have the freedom to stay home.
Unvaccinated people ARE the problem now.
They are also about 10% of the population age 5 and over. So, yes, they are the problem here in MA.
Why are you blaming "MA gov"?
Why are you blaming "MA gov"? For the past seven or eight months "MA gov" has been abdicating its responsibility to protect its citizens from those who flout science and common sense in the name of their "freedom". So, some businesses have decided to refuse in-person service to those who choose to remain unvaccinated in the name of spurious "freedoms" and bogus "religious exemptions". If the "MA gov" gives them a tool like a passport that facilitates this, what's your beef? The "MA gov" isn't banning anyone from anything; businesses and organizations are saying that they won't do in-person business with you if you're not vaccinated.
As an aside, what is the
As an aside, what is the point of a vaccine passport if a fully vaccinated person can still get and pass along COVID? I have not seen a good response to this question.
Really?
What's the point of seatbelts if a person wearing seatbelts can still die in a car accident?
What's the point of a bulletproof vest if the enemy can still shoot you in the head?
What's the point of condoms, if they can break?
The point of a vaccine
The point of a vaccine passport is to show that you are no threat to another person. If the vaccine completely stopped the ability to pass COVID then you could convince me that a passport might be necessary. But the vaccine does not do that.
If a person can still be a threat to another then why even bother with the passport in the first place.
The passport is not for the one holding it, it is for others. All the examples you listed are to protect the self. I dont care of you wear a seat belt but I am going to wear one.
If you're going to be obtuse...
Let's not go with the seatbelt, which primarily protects the individual.
How about, having my load of boulders properly secured on my truck isn't a guarantee that the boulders don't fly off and harm anyone. My properly rated cargo net or solid barrier might be unknowingly weak or worn, and it could fail. And trucks can still flip and throw their cargo, or the gas tank could explode and boulders could shoot everywhere.
Do you want my boulders secured if I'm driving on the highway near you, or do you want me to just put them however the fuck I want since properly securing them is no guarantee that no one gets killed?
Wait
Is that an actual use case for you, or a hypothetical?
Ooh
Will's interested in my boulders!
The Boulder was overrated anyways.
Toph handled him easily.
Protecting others…
Ok, so what’s the point of requiring your car to have working brakes and decent tires as a condition of using the public roads, since working brakes and decent tires don’t provide a 100% guarantee that you won’t hit and kill someone?
What’s the point of requiring building fire safety systems to be inspected, since building fire safety systems don’t provide a 100% guarantee that nobody will die in a fire?
Understanding the probabilities and risks involved doesn’t require calculus; elementary school arithmetic will do. It’s an indictment of our society that our education system has failed so many people so badly.
You’re wrong there
No, the point of a vaccine passport is to show that you represent a significantly reduced threat to others.
significantly reduced threat
I like that someone understands that there are no absolutes!
No it isn't.
No it isn't.
You are arguing in bad faith. Stop wasting everyone's time.
Hell
What's the point of condoms if they can't break?
...
the reservoir tip, obviously
Sensible chuckle
Sensible chuckle
What is the point of using the internet
If you only use it to parrot a bad-faith question that your sister's brother-in-law's chiropractor's aunt thought sounded smart?
The CDC exists. So do state web pages. Do actual research and you will get your answer.
People who are vaccinated are FAR LESS LIKELY to spread disease. They are also FAR LESS LIKELY to be hospitalized or killed by COVID.
No more bad faith questions - the science is out there and translated for lay people. On the internet. Do your own goddamn homework.
I found a useful explanation for arguments
like this one the other day, which helped stanch my longstanding bafflement at them.
It goes, "Once you harden your opposition to the mountain of scientific and medical evidence in favor of vaccines and efforts to encourage vaccinations like passports, and decide to abandon your moral and social responsibility to your fellow citizens, including the most covid-vulnerable and everyone else with the resultant stress on the healthcare system, I guess you just have to pile up as many arguments, no matter how bad-faith or pig-ignorant they are, to help quiet your nagging suspicion that you are an unconscionably selfish, tiny, soul-rotten human being."
I'm less confused about them now. It all adds up.
Maybe we should call them America-Lovers' Right-to-Life Freedom Passports. Would that help?
Can the passport be expanded...
To include free T service to anyone fully vaxxed?
Vaccine Passports Please!
I recently visited Montreal. Quebec has had these for some time. Not only do they drive up vaccination rates, they sure as hell made me feel safe going to restaurants, a hockey game, using the transit system, etc.
Everyone masks there, too, and restaurants have little partitions between tables. Cozy, snug, and reduced risk!
If you live in Quebec, you can get a QR code on your phone. If you don't, you just bring government ID and your vaccine card. These are all carefully checked at the door.
New York too!
I was there early last month and everyone's checking - concert, restaurants, the Bronx Zoo(!) - and it felt closer to 'normal' than I worried I'd ever feel again.
What's the benefit
What's the benefit of a QR code as compared to the app used New York that includes a photo of your ID and your vaccine card? Will venues need to purchase QR code readers? Or do the employees at the venues use their own personal devices to read our QR codes? And how secure is that? The app used in NY seems simple to use and implement.
QR Code Reader
These are also known as smartphones and tablets. That's what they were using in Montreal - tablets that likely belonged to the venue. The person checking them could also hand out buzzers if there was a wait and check people in on their reservations.
QR codes are much quicker - and verified - than reading your info from the card.
SMART Health Card
I have a SMART Health Card on my phone that lists my vaccination status, with a QR code. I've had it for a month or two, and have used it several times. I downloaded it from my main health care provider, Atrius Health, even though I was vaccinated twice by Tufts and once by CVS. SMART Health cards are available from many providers, including CVS. There may be some benefit to having the state provide a similar service, but there are alternatives readily available right now.
"Developing"?
Yah, why are we Developing an app, when there are plenty of apps out there already?
Was able to use an app called Bindle...
..for a performance at the BCA/Calderwood Pavilion a couple of months ago. It was "self-attested" (upload images of ID and vaccine card) and very easy proof-of-vaccination (QC code) but I do think something tied into the Massachusetts and federal public health system would be even better.
Bring it on, Charlie, and make sure it works with as large a network as possible, at least our Northeast neighbors including NY. Better late than never.