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Sox player is, at best, an immature, dimwitted schmuck, Sox fan writes
By adamg on Tue, 08/13/2024 - 11:37am
Matt Gross makes the case that in hurling a homophobic expletive at a fan:
In seconds, Duran revealed that he either hates an entire group of people, or just doesn’t care enough about their well-being to excise that word from the front of his brain’s filing cabinet so that when the temperature gets turned up, it’s not the first thing out of his mouth.
Bryan Joiner makes the case that Jarren Duran got off easy with just a two-day suspension.
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Comments
You have to be carefully taught
Makes me wonder how much time the franchise spends on press training and when they are going to do more to civilize their children before stupid shit like this happens.
Weak Mea Culpa From The Sox
Baseball players for the most part aren't known for their academic prowess.
Spend a lot of time around baseball fields and you can generally, though not universally, see that a Mensa meeting is not breaking out after the game.
Did Duran say something stupid, you bet. Should he get put on an ice floe during polar bear season, absolutely not.
The Sox on the other hand tacitly allowed the Yankee Sucks chants, the Jeter Drinks Wine Coolers and Jeter Sucks A-Rod t-shirts to thrive within the marketplace in the mid to late aughts and beyond. The last two examples are clear indications of other players supposedly being weaker for homosexual tendencies. Sure they were not put out by the team but if you are as big as the Sox, you could have controlled the message better.
I have been watching the Sox since I was five, LFC since my 30's, but watching JohnLinda Henry and crew in action with their naked land grab in Franklin Park and their BigLots! purchases at the trade deadline make me wonder if they don't give a flying f about their public face as long as the cash flows.
Seeing this in terms of prevention
I think he is getting plenty of consequences for this, the first and possibly least of which is the suspension.
But the real question is what the organization is doing to prevent this and other mouth-offs from happening again ... because this really isn't an isolated incident that can be blamed on a single mouthy idiot if they haven't bothered to properly train players to deal with their public emissions.
Often enough, however, these kinds of attitudes start at home.
Either these kinds of attitudes are developed on mommy or daddy's knee, around the dining room or kitchen table, or even in the living room, etc.
Sometimes, however, parents are very laid back and don't bother to teach their kids right from wrong, if one gets the drift. There are also times when parents can't mange their kids, for whatever reason(s), and sometimes, a kid picks up that kind of talk in the street. d
In any event, that's how a kid goes around repeating such stuff.
obviously a Sox fan and real Bostonian
Chanting "Yankees Suck" is a no class move, probably begun by New York college students who stayed after graduation and thought they were embracing Boston culture. The Yankees have won the World Series 27 times. They have never sucked, even in years when their own fans might have thought so.
?
See 1965-1975 and 1979-1993, 2010 - Present.
Ah yes
The homers are still trying to forget 1978.
Who are you holding to standards?
Are you holding the players to professional standards, or the crowd?
Please think this through.
We actually ARE entitled to not have sexual slurs thrown around by our local sports teams.
You can expect the same from the masses, but its a fools errand and the worst kind of changing the subject in order to protect the parts of you that identify with the homophobe.
Manners
Manners aren't "academic" they're basic.
If you don't have them, then you require a handler.
Whataboutism
A flavor you only enjoy when its your own brand.
Huh? Jeter and A-Rod were the
Huh? Jeter and A-Rod were the subject of those chants because of perceived "homosexual tendencies"? Can't think of many/ any outside of the most frothing Red Sox fan that thought A-Rod or Jeter was really gay- Even the most aligning moment of that- the infamous 1997 "shirtless shortstops" photo featured then-local favorite Nomar Garciaparra as one of the other 3- Edgar Renteria and Alex Gonzalez were the other 2
How to explain...
This is how slurs work, anon. It's not that the bigot throwing them around actually believes that their target is what they say they are. It's because the bigot understands that when you label someone as belonging to a stigmatized class, other people treat them like shit. That's how it works. Bullies don't do their own work. At first and last, they count on others to do it for them. No, none of the dull-normal Sawwwwks fans who bought those "Jeter sucks A-Rod" shirts actually thought that either Jeter or A-Rod were gay. They bought them because they're insignificant shitweasels whose only pleasures in their pathetic little lives is getting blasted on shitty beer and punching down. They bought them because they're homophobic and they are betting that everyone around them is too. And guess what? A lot of the time, they won that bet.
I guess that interaction has
I guess that interaction has been censored by MLB and the browser at least for those who don’t have the patience to get over the hurdle trying to find it for over two minute, but I can guess what was said. Being a teenager in the eighties that was the go to insult that was hurled. We’ve come a long way in that we’re mopping up the outliers. People shouldn’t be saying that. My uncle was gay and out. I didn’t make the connection that that slur meant anything other than wanting not to be called it. The galaxy only knows who I hurt with that word. How much was I hurt by the oppression of that word?He was our rock. He was handsome, brave, dignified, outspoken and when his friend called me out for using a term I didn’t understand I hurt, but I got it.
Now don’t get me started on the big business of “New Baseball,” a novel new timed sport that everybody want to hurry through with its comically large bases, instant replay. What a beautiful day (probably night) for a ballgame. Now let’s hurry up and play ball! - So the sports betting industry can get it in the books. - We’re doomed. Baseball is a sport of human abilities and perception…and drama! Instant replay is not baseball, it’s something else, but not baseball. The strike zone is meant to encourage hitters to swing, not to lay off on close pitches. We pillory and celebrate umpires who remember what the game is about. If we have to kill something to save it, did we save it?
He apologized and didn't seem
He apologized and didn't seem to put any caveats on it. He was suspended and doesn't seem to be complaining about it. He shouldn't have used it in that way but I believe this was more from "muscle memory" by leaning on what was a school yard usage in general more do than as a purposeful insult to the lgbtq community (of which I am part of.)
I'm of the opinion that it was a stupid bone headed mistake and is being handled. I think we should accept the apology and work on the culture that perpetuates its usage in school yard taunts. I don't think endlessly beating him on this does any good.
I will say it is disheartening to see fans online suggest he shouldn't have apologized and calling everyone snowflakes. Those are the people I am more angry with tbh.
No.
Leaving aside your extremely generous definition of "endlessly" (an accusation that it seems is always made by somebody within a nanosecond of a popular figure being called out of bad behavior), you're out of line when you say that "we should" anything. You can accept the apology if you want. You don't get to tell anyone else -- no matter who you are, no matter who they are -- that they should do so.
Simmer down pls
Nobody told anybody what to do. "I think we should" is not a command.
Seriously, re-read the paragraph you quoted, then re-read your reaction. I think you should reconsider your response, and no, that is not a command either. It's a suggestion, just like the post you responded to.
Thank you for the back up
Thank you for the back up here. It seems to be a common occurance online where if someone says something the first reaction is knee-jerk attack mode.
I'd also say that I am most definitely not a huge baseball fan and never heard of this player before this controversy. So his fame is pretty meaningless to me. Plus I played football in high school, baseball has never been the sport I pay more than a few moments of interest in a year.
A suggestion for you
Think about what the words "I think we should" mean, vs. "My inclination is to" or something similar. Just a suggestion.
"I think we should" is
"I think we should" is exactly what I meant , I think this is what we should do. It's not you have to , it's not you must. It's my opinion , the think. It's also not saying must or have to , that's the should.
I went out of my way not to make any demands or tell people they have to do anything. You chose to police my words with your own interpretation.
So why do you think that "we" should, then?
If you think that "we" should let it go, clearly you have a reason. You have your own reasons, but how do they extend to other people? Why do you think other people "should" do what you're choosing to do?
go for it
Don't "accept the apology." Hate Duran and stew in bile to the end of your days.
Remind us twelve years from now about his grievous offense and how he should still be flogged.
Act your age
Only a child would think that saying "no" means that one is "stewing in bile".
Speaking of children
So much for role model.
Had a child in elementary or high school made such a slur, there would have been consequences, minimally a parents meeting and workshop in sensitivity to bullying and harassment. Some schools even put a black mark on the student’s record.
Do you really think so?
Do you really think this happens?
Yes, it definitely would at
Yes, it definitely would at the elementary school where I work.
It does indeed happen!
My sons witnessed a racial harassment bullying incident on a bus on a Friday afternoon. Their friends also witnessed it. Since it was a large 8th grader harassing a small 6th grader they weren't able to physically intervene more than forming a human wall to separate bully from victim, but they told their parents. I and other parents reported it to the principal. The principal called over the weekend to interview my boys. (this was around 2009)
That kid was not allowed in class Monday morning until his parents came in and had a discussion with the administration. He was sent home for the day and placed under threat of suspension if there were further incidents.
So, yes, this is taken seriously, particularly in towns where there is substantial diversity and a history of minority students making a federal case of administrators ignoring bullying incidents.
Let me try again
Swirly, thanks for the anecdote. I don't doubt that it happens sometimes, when the adults involve demand accountability. That, by the way, is a necessary but not sufficient condition. But
...implies that it happens all the time. It doesn't. I would guess that it's actually rather rare.
I really do wish you were right, however...
Unfortunately, this is not currently the case at Boston schools. My (gay) partner (also gay) worked at a school in the area last year and recounted the abundance of vile behavior, including similar slurs and hate speech, from some kids and early teens with alarming frequency. My partner was not allowed by the administration to do more than simply admonish the students their words were inappropriate; however, it became quite clear that these students already knew that, and also that was the point for them. Since no further disciplinary action was taken or permitted, the LGBTQ+ students and girls in those classes have no recourse and just have to put up with homophobic and misogynistic behavior from classmates while the entire class learns that bigotry is ostensibly not allowed yet is demonstrably tolerated.
(My own elementary school experience more closely resembled what you described, although largely in a transparently schoold-district-covering-its-own-ass sort of way, so I was similarly shocked to hear that's not the case here and now.)
These anti-bullying and anti-harassment programs don't work,
These anti-bullying and anti-harassment programs don't work, because all too often, people in various positions of authority (i, e, teachers, etc.) don't bother to firmly implement them, and all too often, the bullies are encouraged, and the victims are blamed.
An embarrassent
While hyperbolic, it's a disgrace for this to have come out the mouth of a player from a respected and renowned sports team that calls Boston home.
Just fill their mouths with
Just fill their mouths with chewing tobacco, problem solved
I strongly disagree with
I strongly disagree with calling what he did "stupid" or immature. Like the announcer for the As who used the N word "by mistake", this only comes out of people in moments like these who use the word in private. Its bigoted, not stupid, to use words like this. And wearing a shirt that says "Fuxx 'em" while apologizing, no matter if hes worn it in the past, doesnt really make me think he cares about it other than he got caught.
At least as often as not, however,
Bigotry of various forms does result from ignorance and stupidity.
But education doesn't change it
With rare exceptions, someone who thinks like this isn't going to change their behavior if you simply tell them why it's wrong. They will only change if there are real consequences.
dupe
sorry!
Maybe
Maybe he just thought the heckler looked like someone that owned a Harley.
He clearly
He clearly has no gay friends.. the dude has a mullet.
Hard to take anyone seriously who has a mullet. Its not 1987 anymore.
Recently on vacation
to a gaming convention - mullets are back "in style". Sad but true.
oh gosh
oh gosh.. I know. I see more and more teens with them.
I'd rather have back Farrah Faucet hair than a mullet.
Hell even George Michael's Wham! hair was better than a mullet.
80s fashion
ironically, nearly every single person I know with a mullet is a lesbian. 80s fashion has definitely made a comeback, but maybe only in queer circles and a younger age range? few to none of my mulleted lesbian friends are old enough to have rocked a mullet in 1987, so who knows!
As with most fashion things, it cycles in and
out. I can recall a moment around 20 years ago when I noticed (presumably ironic) mullets on Berkeley undergrad hipster types and touring indie-rock musicians. It's probably due for a revival.
That said, I have at least one country cousin on whom the mullet grabbed hold in the 80s and never let go.
What would folks who believe this is nothing say if...
the fellow used words such as twigger or pike? Calling a person a fornicator (twigger) or a fish or pole (pike) probably would be ignored. What if the words used were slightly different beginning with other letters?
What would the owner's response be if they guy called a fan with dark skin or wearing a Star of David one of the words hinted above?
It's been interesting reading in The Globe commentariat statements from people who say this is much ado about nothing. Yet the same folks realize that would be shut down faster than the T in a blizzard if they used certain other terms.
It's fair to ask whether language that is racist or based on hatred of a person due to their religion is just immaturity.
Well.....
I'd say that at least as often as not, it's a combination of both of the above.
The Wu/Duran story
Herald reporter Gabrielle Starr put up, then took down a tweet last night saying Mayor Wu had requested a meeting with the Red Sox on the Duran incident.
According to the mayor's press office:
"Thanks for reaching out about this to confirm. We don't think the reporter had a real source because that information was completely made up."
https://www.patriotledger.com/story/sports/mlb/2024/08/13/jarren-duran-a...
The Writer
The writer owes Wu an apology and then deserves to lose her job. Her lie caused an absolute shit show on social media. The amount of racist vitriol from the Herald's readership base and online trolls was at levels I haven't seen before. This is the kind of crap that lead to Mayor Wu's house being swatted on Christmas Day.
The irony is that a Red Sox
The irony is that a Red Sox crowd is the most white-hetero gathering anywhere.