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City councilors from southern half of the city to Logan: Enough already
By adamg on Thu, 09/21/2017 - 8:54am
Jamaica Plain News reports on a formal complaint about "unbearable" jet noise of late, notes a new citizen group, Boston South Fair Skies, holds an organizing meeting tonight at 6:30 at the Roslindale Community Center, 6 Cummins Highway.
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Noise Free noisefree.org
Noise Free http://noisefree.org
lololol
"Noise Free America is a nonprofit organization dedicated to fighting noise, especially from boom cars, car alarms, leaf blowers, barking dogs, and motorcycles."
Would anyone like to sign the "Dog Free Communities Petition"? They are truly a menace to society. Why won't someone think of the children?
They like all the conviences of 21st century
Post industrial age, just no cars, trucks, planes.
Not at all
Noise pollution is like any other type of pollution. There are solutions. You don't need to give up modernity, just require trucks to have working, reasonable quality mufflers and exhausts. New city buses are considerably more quiet than old ones. Even new, modern planes aren't as loud.
Think of the children?
And all the noise they generate!
Seriously, whenever I've lived in a community with tons of children, I've had to put up with screaming, yelling, shrieking, bouncing of basketballs, scratching of plastic toddler toy wheels, honking, and colic-y babies that cry 22 hours a day.
And you can't call the police to make *any* of them stop, because they're children and they're allowed.
wait
Did you seriously think I meant we need to curb the noise children make? I know sarcasm doesn't always translate well on the internet, but just to be clear I am not advocating silencing Boston's children.
That's a quality straw man!
Are dogs causing permanent damage to people's health?
Just because you're too dim to perceive something that's invisible (noise, hearing damage), doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Its certainly the worst when
Its certainly the worst when the planes start at 5:30 AM and go non stop all morning. But it has also been happening late at night. There is no 8 hour window when someone in this part of the city can get a peaceful night sleep. That is unacceptable. I know they were doing construction on a runway and that was making things worse temporarily but I thought that was or should have been over with by now.
City living
And could someone do something about all those cars too? And the ambulances? Don't they have nighty-night mode? And I swear I heard someone talking on the sidewalk at 10. Ten o clock! Don't these people...
Cynical, yet stupid
If you didn't live next to a hospital, but a third of the ambulances in the city started driving through your residential neighborhood on their way to everywhere else, then yeah, you and your neighbors might wonder wtf was going on. Ditto if heavy trucks started driving by your house early in the morning and kept going throughout the evening even though you didn't live anywhere near a construction site or a truck yard.
'That's just the way it is in the city' comments like the above - that stereotype urban life as if it was everywhere just a version of 70s-era downtown Manhattan, are as pathetic and (deliberately?) misleading as those from suburbanites who wonder why anyone in the city complains about violent crime - after all, that's where it's 'supposed' to be, right?
Golly gosh
Yes, that would be just terrible if heavy trucks - or those terrible "omnibus" thingies that open and close their doors and call out the stops in loud voices - drove by my house. Just terrible.
I would gather Mrs. Sockpuppet and the little Sockies and we would go picket (very quietly, mind you, it is a residential neighborhood) at the State House.
Routes really should be distributed equitably, not on the basis of convenience, fuel savings, or efficiency. It is so unfair!
If you are so fine with loud
If you are so fine with loud noises at 5:30AM then list your address and I'll put it on Craigs List and pay people to make loud noises at that time. I imagine you'll realize quickly how dumb your comment is.
Do you live under it?
You have to understand that this is not an issue that has always existed but is only being complained about now because of new people moving in or something. I have lived in Roslindale for more than 10 years and have never experienced air traffic like this. Planes start coming at 5:30am in 30 second intervals (literally) and go on for hours. This happens day after day, not just once in a while. The noise is so loud it wakes you from a sound sleep even when your windows are closed. Moreover, it appears that this is a result of the FAA / Massport having implemented a new air traffic technology to concentrate flights in and out in very specific ways. Other cities around the country have sued the FAA (Phoenix successfully) for implementing this technology without any public comment. If it were just a temporary of having to put up with it because of runway construction that would be one thing. The real concern is that it appears not to be temporary and was implemented without any regard for the people affected.
This is the kind of issue that seems easy to dismiss when it doesn't directly affect you. But I would ask you not to be so cavalier about something that others consider to be literally threatening to their health and their ability to remain in their homes. If nothing else, I would ask you to look into how much people have started to organize around this issue, and then ask whether, if its really no big deal, why have so many people started to get together to stop it. No one is asking that the noise just get moved to another street, neighborhood, or town. They are asking that it be reduced altogether, which it can be.
I can't hear you
Over the sound of twitch which I have running 24/7. What noise? Learning to sleep with music/tv/computer noise to soothe you to sleep is a must have skill for the 21st century.
More pew pew
Less boo hoo
something has changed - it's now morning and evening
We are under the path as well so we are familiar with the 5:15am start on the mornings they use that runway and ATC pattern.
But something changed in the last two weeks -- we now get the noise/flights in the late afternoon and evening as well. I don't think that ever happened before or at least I associate the new plane noise with 'mornings only'
Am I crazy? Are the evening flights 'new' to anyone else?
Not crazy...
It's real. A few nights ago they started around 10 PM and ran up to 1 AM.
peaceful night sleep? Go to your doctor
Or therapist.
Because if planes 1000's of feet away are keeping you from sleeping, something else is going on.
Perhaps you should educate
Perhaps you should educate yourself and read the linked articles before commenting. They mention studies that show airplane noise causing negative effects on peoples health. If I went to a doctor like you suggested they would say the same thing.
Is the construction done yet?
Is the construction done yet? What exactly is going on down at Logan? What sections of Boston do the planes fly over? Why don't they re-route them to fly over Newton, Brookline, Sudbury, Wayland, Weston and Wellesley?
Having lived in SoBo for a
Having lived in SoBo for a time, you get used to it.
It mostly skirts Southie
If you look at two of the most common approaching flight paths at the link below you'll see that they mostly skirt Southie and where they do go over it is not residential. They go over the shipping terminal and Castle Island. There is a big difference in noise when the planes come in directly overhead so your "get used to it" statement is not necessarily applicable to folks who have planes approaching directly over their house ever few minutes for hours on end.
https://cdn.patch.com/users/1625498/2014/11/T800x600/546031020deba.jpg
Umm
Check out Southie some time. It's nice, especially castle island.
As for the planes, they're frequently do go over the west side of City Point at around 500 to 1500 feet. It's louder than anything being complained about here, and can be heard to West Broadway.
People deal with it just fine. It's just part of city living.
I've lived both under and near
I've lived about a half-mile off of the flight path and just about directly under it at about the same radius from the airport and I can tell you from that first hand experience that it is a huge difference living under it rather than adjacent to it.
What makes them special?
One thing that is so amazing about the airplane noise thing: EVERYONE is whining that they are being singled out because "massport had a meeting where they decided to screw (insert community here)".
ENOUGH!
We need a city-wide discussion and solution. No more of this "we in this area want peace and quiet so please screw over other areas because we're special".
Also: please learn what a windrose looks like and why this problem gets spread all over the area.
It's no longer distributed
Currently due to changes in air traffic control when a flight path is set, the majority of planes now follow it. So certain neighborhoods are being disrupted in a non-equitable way considering their actual distance from the airport. This last point is key - if you live in Chelsea, Eastie, South, Revere, airplane noise is a assumed fact of live. However why should Roslindale get heavy air traffic overhead and south Brookline doesn't? Simply mixing up the approach vectors every 30-60 minutes by a mile would make a difference and it doesn't seem unreasonable to ask.
Maybe
But I've also heard the "Massport had a meeting and decided to screw over my town" nonsense, too.
For starters, it is FAA.
It is rather distributed compared to LA, which has a 10 degree windrose rather than a 270.
Help help
I'm being disrupted in a non-equitable way!
Stop Whining
So tired of my fellow South End neighbors whining about this. Turn on a fan or put in some ear plugs. It is the epitome of privilege to complain about this and a charmed life if you have time to "organize" around this with so many other pressing issues.
In other words, this is first
In other words, this is first-world problem.
So?
We still, at least for awhile longer, live in a First World country.
When did the Boston metro
When did the Boston metro area turn into a giant cesspool of candyasses that can't cope with white noise from airplanes? Prop planes are so much nosier than jets and there used to be a lot more of them overhead in the 50s. Not mention all the loud military air traffic in New England from Strategic Air Command during the Cold War.
No wonder everyone loses their collective shit when it snows IN NEW ENGLAND. The residents here seem to have lost all their coping skills to deal with anything slightly inconvenient or unpleasant in life.
What's next? Complaining the foliage season is a problem because leaves are slippery or the cranberry bogs are the wrong color? Seeeessh!
Must be nice not to live under a flight path
The issue isn't planes, it's the newish system that puts plane after plane after plane into a very tight, narrow corridor that means if you live under that path, you get planes like every 90 seconds for hours at a time.
Before, the planes flew in wider corridors that meant the noise load was more distributed.
I think I have the answer
The noise of planes at high altitudes is greatly reduced for those on the ground. The problem is civilian aviation is all about gradual, long approaches and departures. Allow them to start using military style unrestricted climbs where the planes go almost completely vertical until at cruising altitude.
And yes bigger planes can do it too...
Beverage service
would definitely have to be delayed until cruising altitude was reached...
Let me guess
You never lived near Hanscom or Pease when it was a more active airbase.
I grew up on Naval Air
I grew up on Naval Air Stations (in VA, TN, FL) and have been around jet and plane noise all of my life. I live in Everett and deal with Logan noise every day. It's a fact of life, and I go about my business. I hear trains at all hours more than planes tbh.
Let's just move all air traffic out of Logan to Worcester and Manchester then! Good luck with that commute to the airport from Boston
Get some earplugs, a white noise machine, or move to the countryside (where no doubt you all would complain about the roosters making noise!
Way to miss the point
Notice how the replies to comments are indented?
Good. Stay with me now ...
Notice how the comment that you replied to is indented?
Okay.
Now - notice how the comment was addressing the fact that such takeoffs do NOT make plane traffic LESS noisy?
No? Maybe that's because you were so very all about your own special life as a military brat - and telling us about that - that you didn't notice that you were interrupting a conversation with a completely random, out of place, non-sequitur?
no, it's because sometimes on
no, it's because sometimes on an ipad or phone or even my computer i don't really care about threading.
sadly not spoiled because military folks don't make much money until they get to about LT rank. nice try tho!
More noise by airport, less noise away from airport
That's the idea behind my semi-humorous suggestion.
Of course the people in East Boston might not appreciate such takeoffs...
I've said it before
And I've been getting my blood pressure raised by those who live near me that have been complaining about this for the past 15 years. Now, I've got a city councilor who lives 100 yards away and about 30 feet further in the air griping about this, so I feel that compared to where you live (elevation wise) my views are valid.
The noise is not that bad.
I listen to the noise of cars, buses, and trucks at night. I have the noise of 2 rail lines going by (one busy, the other not so much.) Overnight construction has been going on in the square for years as they try to fix the electricity issues. Do I notice the airplanes going by, sometimes a minute apart? Yes. But I also notice the cars going by my house and all the other noises living in Roslindale brings.
People who hate noise will gripe about noise no matter what. The planes have to fly over someone. And again, compared to say a mile from the runways the noise is tolerable.
That said, perhaps Massport and/or the FAA should check out the areas and note how loud the planes are.
Your subjective opinion is meaningless.
-You think your opinion is more valuable than a decibel meter?
-Can we see your most recent audiogram?
Are you really so self-centered that you think everyone perceives the world and sound the same way you do? It doesn't bother you so fuck everyone else, amirite?
I live under a flight path
I deal with it, since I also use airplanes to get places.
Both are part of being in a city.
Move to Vermont if you don't like it.
How about this
Grow up next to a national guard base with regular loud live ammo exercises.
Planes are a sweet deal by comparison.
If my opinion doesn't matter
Neither should Michelle Wu's, since as far as aircraft noise goes, we sleep next to each other.
But yes, if you read what I actually wrote, I do note that using a more objective measure than "I head aircraft after my newborn wakes me up and I cannot get back to sleep" would be good, such as a decibel meter.
By the way, your opinion is meaningless, too.
Not the same...
These new complaints aren't about the distant roar of a high-flying plane, they are complaints about very loud, window-rattling low flying planes coming over one after another for hours at at time.
Smaller planes
Another part of the problem/solution is the size of planes. It's not terribly hard to incentivize fewer smaller and more larger planes than there are now.
https://www.google.com/search?q=logan+airport+peak+hour+pricing
That would improve air traffic. Larger planes would result in consolidated, less flexible flight schedules, and one-percenters flying private/charter planes would pay more, but overall it's better for the greater good.
My cousin owns a moving
My cousin owns a moving company, let me know if you want his number.
Quit using Logan
Everyone taking a flight out of or into Logan are contributing to the noise. This includes some of the residents who are voicing their displeasure with the aircraft noise.
Exactly.
Exactly.
I'm guessing that everyone complaining about the noise does not and will not fly out of Logan.
Noise in Boston
Noise in Boston https://www.boston.gov/departments/environment/air-pollution-control-com...
Commissioner of the Transportation Department is Chair of Air Pollution Control Commission G. Fiandaca, email apcc at boston.gov
The Air Pollution Control Commission APCC oversees both the air and noise regulations for the City, there is no separate Noise Commission. They also oversee the new Building Energy Reporting and Disclosure Ordinance.
Current APCC Commissioners...
Ex-oficio - Chair - Transportation Department Commissioner, Gina Fiandaca
Ex-oficio - Public Health Commission - Julien Farland
At-large - Bart Mitchell
At-large - Russell Preston
At-large - Virginia Tisei
Replacing landscaping gas powered equipment with electric http://sustainability.yale.edu/news/yale-replace-grounds-equipment-elect...
maybe those complaining can
maybe those complaining can ask residents of San Diego how they cope (ever flown into the airport there and been amazed the approach is so low you can see in apartment buildings?)
Better windows
People in areas of Revere, East Boston, etc. have special noise-abatement windows courtesy of Massport.
San Diego also has a fairly tight windrose - meaning that flights are over only a small sliver of the city most of the time. That makes mitigation possible.
Awww..... poor babies!
Try growing up on the top floor of a house in Revere where the planes flew so low in the landing path you couldn’t even use the phone and could see the landing gear from my bedroom window.
Then take a ride over there now and see why apartments are still relatively cheap when the people there aren’t as concerned with airplane noise disturbing their ability to enjoy farm to table.
A lot of whining from people with no dog in the fight.
If the jet noise doesn't bother you then why are you whining? Do you get your jollies by arguing about something that has no bearing on you? So you enjoy annoying others; you get off on creating hassles where you have not business.
There is a guy in D.C. who would happily employ you.
Everyone who has not problem with noise please do send your emails to the rest of us. We will help you learn some wisdom. That wisdom is walking in another person's shoes.