Liberal lamentation over the sailing yacht
Boston Skeptic writes:
... What Kerry doesn't realize is that most people have marriages, lives and budgets and work hard every day to make ends meet. Most people don't own several million dollar recreational items apart from their spouse or spend time around the dinner table holding shareholder meetings to discuss the use and maintenance of family assets. Watching Kerry handle this situation like a jackass is fun, but it makes me feel bad for America. Even though we voted convincingly not to have him as our president, the people in my state continue employ him as our voice in important decisions.
That John Kerry remains a powerful force in American government is a frightening prospect. Fortunately for us he'll never get out of his own way long enough to do any real damage. Anchors aweigh!
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It took Kerry four days - from Friday until Tuesday -
to decide to pay $500,000 in MA tax on his new Friendship Sloop. Actually, he doesn't owe Mass tax on this speedy sailboat unless he registers it in Mass but he decided to pay anyway: It's registered in Newport RI, and moored in a slip in Newport, RI, not on Nantucket or anywhere in MA.
But sure, he's loaded because he married rich and has always been somewhat of a snob about station in life and affectations. That said, more often than not, he votes as I would.
The ladies at the Herald deserve some credit for pointing out this apparent hypocrisy but that's all it is, an apparent hypocrisy. When the facts are examined, this dust-up is as much a swift boat as the last one.
It's registered in Newport,
It's registered in Newport, but he doesn't live in Newport. No different from putting New Hampshire plates on your car to avoid MA taxes.
I wonder how John Kerry will vote on the sales tax referendum.
Actually it's a lot more complicated than that
Technically the boat is owned by an LLC - not sure what state the LLC is registered in but I vaguely recall Madam Ketchup's home state of PA being mentioned (sounds like they may charter it to the chosen few and perhaps have to "charter" it even for their own use). I believe John and Madam Ketchup own the LLC - but who knows how many layers of tax shelters that's buried under. Technically he may have had the rights to not pay the taxes on this - but at the end of the day too politically dangerous to fight it - especially in this environment. End of the day the $500k is a write-off for them - probably saves them $200k elsewhere and the $300k is a rounding error in their stratosphere.
Nice windfall for Mass, bad publicity for him, but it was probably all just this side of legal but not worth losing your senate seat over - he can just vote himself a raise next year and pay it off over time the good ole fashioned way.
yea bad optics but just that, optics
The LLC limits the liability of fbo/Teresa Heinz Trust for guests, and for charters when the LLC rents it. I'm sure they have a ginourmous liability umbrella on it to because the sloop cost millions, is worth millions, and the value of which could be awarded in a successful lawsuit over damages for wrongful death, injury, etc.
There are perfectly good reasons to choose Newport RI to moor a classy and expensive sloop like this one.
It would come as no surprise to me that the Kerry/Heinz's sail it about near Newport as well as have it sailed to them when they spend time in Nantucket or sail it there themselves.
Kerry's compensation for US Senator is $174,000. A cost-of-living-adjustment (COLA) increase takes effect annually unless Congress votes to not accept it. Members are free to turn down pay increase and some choose to do so.
The Boston Herald
by reporting the story incompletely, with the narrative that it was Kerry's decision to moor the boat in RI specifically to avoid taxes, and sensationally as a front page story they ran for four days, created a nationwide Breitbart-like environment when Kerry had to pay half a million so that the story would not damage his reputation and damage his prospects of being re-elected.
I'm not the biggest fan of John Kerry. I find him pompous and affected but I like the way he votes, mostly. That said, I don't think what the Herald did here was quality journalism. It was incomplete and irresponsible. If it wasn't a hit job, it might as well have been.
Is the irony of the something for nothing anti-tax crowd pressuring Kerry to pay taxes, huge taxes he may not owe, lost on the rest of us?
Gotta agree
I agree that the incomplete reporting was ridiculous and irresponsible. I didn't know the whole story at first myself.
Part of the problem
The Herald doles out ink to their reporters like they were printing in gold leaf. I joked to someone last night that I read it on the internet so it must be true. It's usually NOT a joke to say I read it in the Herald so it's half true (the other half isn't untrue - but it's simply left out).
It's not "registered" in MA or RI
Kerry's boat isn't registered in any state - it's "documented". Pretty much all commercial vessels and a lot of larger private boats are documented, which is kind of like a federal registration. When a boat is registered thru the state, you'll notice it's registration numbers on both sides of the bow (the pointy end) - like MS 1234 A for a boat in MA. Documented boats have no number, but they put the boats name on the bow. You'll notice all the lobster boats and fishing boats are like this.
When you document a boat, you claim a "hailing port" (it's home port) and Isabel has a hailing port of Newport. Nothing is done thru MA or RI bureaucracies. Oddly, you'll see a lot of boats hailing from Wilmington DE and I can guarantee you that neither the boat nor the owner has never been to Wilmington DE, or could even find it on a map. But, they create a DE corp and have the corp own the boat.
Documentation used to be and end run around paying taxes years ago, but it doesn't work anymore. States wisely changed the laws so that they could tax an "out-of-state" boat if it appeared to be berthed at their state.
So, the above statement is wrong about 10 different ways. Boats aren't cars and are taxed very differently.
BTW, the LLC is:
GREAT POINT LLC
625 LIBERTY AVE SUITE 3200
PITTSBURGH, PA 15222
Got this info from http://www.iwr.usace.army.mil/ndc/veslchar/veslcha...
I admirte your attempt to bring facts into this discussion....
...something the media doesn't seem to have tried to do -- but suspect most folks are impervious to facts that don't affirm their opinions.
Hailing Port
While kayaking in Anacortes, WA, I saw a gigantic sailboat with a very curious home port:
Virginia City, Nevada
Still trying to figure that one out.
I think that wins
It's even better than the Sherborn Yacht Club.
Ghost of Lorne Greene?
That was the home town of the Cartwright family wasn't it? lol
How long would it have taken if....
....it weren't currently in the news? He did the right thing by (eventually) agreeing to pay the taxes, but I suspect he's only paying because he got caught.
The initial excuse used by his spokesperson was hilarious. It was only docked in Rhode Island for repairs, and maintenance, not to dodge the Massachusetts taxes. Oh that's right, there aren't any marine mechanics in Massachusetts, are there? How about shipbuilders? Any shipbuilders in MA? I wonder where it was built (I'm guessing, not in Massachusetts).
A rich Senator representing Massachusetts who champions the cause of rich-people-paying-their-damn-taxes needs to a) pay his damn taxes, and b) support local revenue and local businesses whenever possible. It was quite possible to buy a locally-built boat, and dock it in his own home state, where he owns at least two homes near the water, for "repairs and maintenance." Kerry failed miserably to put his money where his mouth is.
**ETA: yikes, didn't see the other thread below (with 30+posts) until after I wrote this. Many issues addressed there, that I dont' want to duplicate (any further than I already have). The main issue that concerns me at this point is not so much the sales/use tax as it is the failure to support local businesses by buying a locally built and maintained boat. -Sam
Now that's no way to comment on a Kerry story
Let's go with a standard Herald response: About time Liveshot gave up some of his wife's money that he STOLE from the Massachusetts taxpayer. Unlike "Senator Stuffy" most of us have to WORK for a living and "barely" have anything left after paying for dirty illegals and ObamaCare. Keep playing with your tub toys, Liveshot: You and your ketchup mama are among the MINORITY of people who can afford another six years of "hopey changey"!!! While Johnny's skippering the S.S. Elitist down to those treasonists in Rhode Island -- Roger Williams didn't pay Massachusetts taxes either, and the only friends he could make afterward were INDIANS -- the cops and soldiers and firefighters and construction workers that make this state great are thinking about November, when all the incuberants are going down. We'll get our casinos and our guns and all our tax dollars that crazy "economists" say are among the lowest in the country and you can have snooty hoity-toity drink time on the SS I Don't Give A Dman. Take your health care, windsurfers, "financial regulation" and gaymos in the military... YOU CAN KEEP THE CHANGE! P.S. I got mine, so F U!
There, that's more like it.
The "Liberal Lamentation" is slightly off the mark
My reaction to the original post was "blah, blah, heard this before", until the part about "vot[ing] convincingly not to have him as our president". My first issue with that was that I don't view a 50.7% - 48.3% split (a difference of 3 million popular votes in a country of 300 million people) as voting convincingly for President Bush. A win for President Bush for sure, but not quite as profound as the original post seems to imply.
Secondly, if the beef is that Kerry is another rich guy "spend[ing] time around the dinner table holding shareholder meetings..." (btw, is this mythical table the same one that Barney Frank had no interest in talking to?), how the hell is Kerry very different from President George W. Bush (to whom he was implicitly compared) in that respect? I haven't been to Texas, but I just got back from Kennebunkport and it seems to me like there are plenty of Bush family assets to maintain as well.
Focus
I think Kerry has a habit of screwing up so badly that we lose sight of his legislative work. The yacht is a distraction from important issues. Look beyond this for the important things. If he could stop his screw-ups, he probably would be an even more "powerful force in American government" than he is. We'd be better off with that Kerry. Maybe Boston Skeptic would be happier with two Scott Browns representing us.
He didn't screw up
The only screwed-up thing here is that anyone thought to make an issue out of this and that the rest of the media decided to glom on like a pack of unintelligent chucklehounds.
Would anyone mind... if I
Would anyone mind... if I moored my 1974 Dodge Dart in New Hampshire, even though I don't live there?
bet your ass...
If your wife lived there and owned it
No.
Teresa live in R.I. now?
I thought Teresa "lived" in Pennsylvania. I don't get why they don't live together, wherever it is, they're supposed to be married. To each other.
Can't handle comprehension?
Go back and do your reading. The Yacht is owned by a holding company that is majority owned by Teresa Heinz.
It is moored in RI, but that's equivalent to when I've driven to Chicago in my private car to work for a week and parked it there.
So, you are saying that a boat owned by Kerry's wife's holding company that is working in RI part of the year means he owes taxes to MA? I think you are rather confused and/or stubborn.
As for the split official residences, you must not know of anybody who is deployed away from their home of record and married to somebody working a civilian job or somebody who prefers to retain their different home of record. You can physically live together, but file separately for tax purposes. Most of the time this isn't a good idea. If you have enormous inherited holdings in a single state, as Ms. Heinz does, it is an important advantage to keep your residence there.
In any case, their arrangements are not your business nor mine.
Can't handle being exposed as wrong?
"Go back and do your reading. The Yacht is owned by a holding company that is majority owned by Teresa Heinz."
That's nice. Too bad it has nothing to do with the question. The question is whether Teresa lives in Rhode Island. Why am I asking that? Because YOU brought up the "if your wife lived there" argument. Go back and do YOUR reading where you used "if your wife lived there and owned it" as an example in your own response to okra, who posted the analogy to parking his/her car in NH while he/she lived in MA. Your post directly implied it'd be okay for someone living in MA to park their car in NH and avoid MA taxes, if their wife lived in NH. I took your example and applied it to John/Teresa with their residences which I thought were in PA/MA. By your own example from your reply to okra, Teresa would be living in Rhode Island, just as okra's wife would be living in New Hampshire. Hence my question of whether Teresa now lives in Rhode Island. Instead of answering the question, you respond with a rant deflecting the topic towards holding corporations. Whuh? Holding corporations had nothing to do with neither okra's post nor your reply to okra's post.
"It is moored in RI, but that's equivalent to when I've driven to Chicago in my private car to work for a week and parked it there."
Well maybe. I didn't realize that the boat was only moored there for a week. See, Kerry's spokesperson declared it was for "maintenance and repairs." I heard nothing about "it's only for a week" so either his spokesperson didn't know that either, and/or his publicists are doing a really, really crappy job. In a previous post I wondered why Kerry, Senator representing MA, can't have "maintenance and repairs" done in Massachusetts, giving business to locally established businesses. Support local jobs in his own state. That would have been the ideal thing for a politician to do.
"So, you are saying that a boat owned by Kerry's wife's holding company that is working in RI part of the year means he owes taxes to MA? I think you are rather confused and/or stubborn."
Yeah, I'm confused, that's it. Confused as to why Kerry's spokespeople and publicists can't get word out about that until today. Until today all I've heard is 'it's for maintenance'. Not a word about it's his wife's company's boat on official business for only one week. I suppose I could be stubborn too. My main issue, as I posted earlier, is that he missed out a golden opportunity to make a big show of supporting businesses in his own home state. Yes, that would mean he, or his wife, or his wife's company, would be paying more money in taxes. But that $500K in taxes would go a a lot further in goodwill than $500K of TV ads for his next election campaign. Plus he/his wife/his wife's company should have bought the boat in MA in the first place.
"As for the split official residences, you must not know of anybody who is deployed away from their home of record and married to somebody working a civilian job..."
Sure I do. I have several friends in the military. But I don't get the 'deployment' thing in this case. Because I'm confused.
"... or somebody who prefers to retain their different home of record. ..."
Oh yeah. I know of a great example of that. The Bush family. When they were in the white house they declared Texas as their official state as residence, so that they could duck local (to DC) taxes. That was bull shit. They lived in DC for a majority of the year, they should have paid DC taxes. It was bullshit for the Bushes, and it's bull shit for the Kerrys. I'm not saying either broke the law in this regard, but I am saying they both failed to do the right thing. They're both rich as hell, and they both use loopholes to get out of paying taxes. See how fair I am? I criticize both sides.
"....You can physically live together, but file separately for tax purposes. Most of the time this isn't a good idea. If you have enormous inherited holdings in a single state, as Ms. Heinz does, it is an important advantage to keep your residence there.
And it's a loophole that needs to be closed. We're in a fiscal crisis in this country, and we're trying to get rich people to pay more taxes, so how about rich people who are married to each other, especially who are part of this noble campaign to get rich people to pay more taxes, set a good example with themselves and file for residency in the state they live in...together? setting a good example goes a long way.
Let me try this again
I posted this in the other thread, and I'll try it again here.
Having been around boats a lot of my life, I'm kinda familiar with this stuff. People start comparing taxes on cars with taxes and boats, but it's not a fair comparison - it's apples and oranges. They're simply not taxed the same.
First, your residency has nothing to do with the taxes on a boat. The taxes are based on where the boat primarily resides. Yes, that leaves a *huge* grey area, and that's for the Kerry's and MA to battle over. But, the simple rule is that if you live in MA and your boat resides in RI, you owe no MA tax. Conversely, if you live in RI and your boat resides in MA, you pay MA tax. Harbormasters are very in tune with this as they know every boat in the harbor, which ones reside there and which ones are transients. Even in a huge harbor like Newport, they know the status of all the boats.
Since residency has no bearing on taxes, neither does ownership. It shouldn't make any difference whether Kerry is the owner, Theresa, some corporation, a trust, a yacht charter company, or whatever. If the boat resides in RI, it is subject to RI taxes. If the boat resides in MA, then it pays MA taxes, regardless of who/what owns it. And let me say it now, I have no idea what the tax liability is on a boat that is constantly on the move. Generally, a boat declares a home port, and would be subject to those taxes. Any other state that wants to have some dibs on the taxes can make a case if it wishes.
One thing I don't quite get is the 6-month clause that is being used on Kerry. The argument is that if your new boat is ever in MA in the first 6 months, then it is subject to MA tax. I don't understand the intention of this rule. If this is true, then you could tax any schmuck from out of state with a new boat that happens to venture into MA on a weekend cruise. That doesn't make sense.
As for why Kerry keeps the boat in Newport, it's most likely for reasons already brought up. There are few, if any, boat yards in MA that could service a boat like that. First, you need a lift big enough. Second, you need the expertise - this isn't your father's Buick. But, that's probably not the main reason. If the boat needed work, the captain could just take it to Newport from wherever it is - no big deal. They probably want it there for the social aspect, that's all. Saving a half-million in taxes doesn't hurt, but it sure isn't evasion. Between that and the potential charter business, it makes sense.
So, that's my take on the taxes, and it may be out-of-date. If anybody has any facts that contradicts anything here, I'd love to know. It does get messy sometimes.
Holding Bush and Kerry to the same standard?
Wow. That's not fair! Kerry is one of us, Bush isn't! You new around here or something?
One of Billy Bulger's best lines: "JFK doesn't stand for John Forbes Kerry. It's his credo: Just For Kerry!"
And God knows
Bulger is a paragon of integrity when it comes to allocating tax dollars, those financing his retirement notwithstanding.
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