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Mike Capuano spoilin' for a fight
By adamg on Wed, 02/23/2011 - 4:08pm
The pugnacious pol apparently thinks now's the time for supporters of Wisconsin unions to get out on the streets and get a little bloody.
Even Blue Mass. Group is aghast and trying to figure out how he might have been misquoted, although his comment still doesn't seem to rise to the level of the standard Tea Party invective about watering the tree of liberty with the blood of liberal tyrants.
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Comments
Too Union Too Long
Knowing Mike and knowing union lingo, I immediately figured it meant that the supporters had to be willing to take their lumps. For well over a century, it's been the owners' and sometimes government agents who are the thugs. The unionists are on the receiving end. It has been their willingness to stage protests, sit-ins and other actions...and take the blows of the powers that be...that has meant such advances as living wages, collective bargaining and such benefits as two-day weekends.
I heard Rep. Capuano saying be willing to stand up and take the consequences.
Now he's admitting using "blood" was not smart. MSM as well as wingers have hopped all over this. I don't think his admission will mitigate that at all to them.
He probably shouldn't be using words like that
He probably shouldn't be using words like that, but the way I read it is that he is encouraging supporters of workers' rights to stand up for their beliefs even if it results in personal injury from their opponents(that is, stand up for your rights at the risk of getting bloody!). That's different from typical Tea Party rhetoric that encourages supporters to go out and inflict injury on their opponents (that is, let's go out and make someone bloody!).
From the other side
Deputy AG Under Review After 'Live Ammunition' Tweet
boston area?
is this a boston blog or politics blog?
It's two mints in one!
Even if I suddenly decided to cut Somerville off my view of "Boston," the fact remains that Capuano a) was speaking in Boston and b) actually represents part of Boston (not my part, unfortunately, but what are you gonna do?).
Yes, my coverage of local politics is wildly uneven, but it seemed like his coment was a valid issue to consider.
But what of the AG story?
In Indiana?
Cappy and his fellow union thugs and wingers
are always advocating violence- why is that?
SEIU thugs attakced Ken Gladney; other wingers and union thugs attacked Tea Party supporters throughout the previous year, and now Cappy, what, a month after Gabby Giffords was shot (by another winger; the Tucson loon was lib in his leanings) wants "blood?" What a jackass.
Cappy is the biggest turd in the MA delegation... and that's saying something.
You're a troll. Capuano
You're a troll. Capuano meant that the union members would get bloody, as in, would have to deal with the consequences of their protest: either real or symbolic bloodshed -- their OWN, not that of their opponents.
Unions are about the little guy standing up to the big guy... workers standing up to their rich employers. This kind of confrontation usually ends up with the little guy getting hurt, and shedding blood.
I don't know how to make it clearer to you.
Unions are about the little
Yes, because local, state, and federal governments are just rolling in it right now.
Unions aren't little guys. They haven't been little guys in a very long time. They are bloated, fat, and leech off of anyone and anything they can get their hands on.
JeffB is right
Unions today are not what they once were, and the public unions are the worst. They keep us from getting rid of bad workers with bad attitudes and no motivation. Private unions are fine, that's the free market for you, but these public unions will bankrupt this country, as they are already bankrupting states like MA and CA.
Bloody Capuano?
You Lefty trolls
are always claiming that "the Right" is hateful and violent; yet time and again all we see are words of hate and acts of violence being perpetrated by the likes of Cappy, SEIU thugs, and their ilk, and folks like you constantly making allowances for them.
I know- I shouldn't even be feeding a troll like you.
Lefty Trolls
Remember dude, Jefferson, Washington, Franklin, et al were radicals.
Like them, I do not fear threats when it comes to the defense of the country I love, come Hell.
We left-wingers don't all just sit around and think too much and fear the right-wing power scooter brigade's gun toting rhetoric.
Come the war
Come the avarice
Come the war
Come hell
Come attrition
Come the reek of bones
Come attrition
Come hell
This is why
Why we fight
Why we lie awake
And this is why
This is why we fight
When we die
We will die
With our arms unbound
And this is why
This is why
Why we fight
Come hell
Well lookie who it is!
Shouldn't you be strolling a Wal-Mart, RJ?!
Context matters you ideological moran
Being ready to bleed is much, much different from making someone bleed.
Making a comment that you should use live ammunition on your opponents, vs be ready to get bloodied up (endure attacks from your opposition) is different.
While I do think his choice of words should have been better, and foresee the instant facepalm of an aide, context and understanding of the English language matters.
So either your ideological bent is blinding you to this, or someone needs to go back to grade school.
..uhm...
...is that irony or are you just happy to see us?
that would be funny
if Left Wingers ever considered that. (BTW- "moran?") For instance, when Sarah Palin had a website "targeting" Dem Congressional candidates fools on the Loony Left attempted to say she was inciting violence (tho' they- conveniently- neglected a DNC website that similarly "targeted" GOP candidates.) So save YOUR ideological BS sanctimony, troll.
Oh- and JP? Are you still on that silly Wal-Mart thing? You were already proven wrong, must you continue to compound your stupidity? Save some shred of self-respect, will ya?
And the problem with Palin
And the problem with Palin wasn't just Gun Sights on her self called "Hit list", which do have a very different meaning than bulls-eyes BTW, but a history of loose speech calling for violence and "second amendment" remedies, wink wink, nudge nudge.
Most people even have the sense to see the metaphor and distinguish between right and wrong. But not all do, and politicians should be smarter in how their wording their rally cries.
Civics is not war.
Anon2
If that RJ?
An Interesting Thought
We are dealing with a national GOP that has:
1) spent the entire treasury and then some on dubiously valid foreign adventures and heavy defense buildup and contracts
2) now tells the US citizens that there is no money left and that we must completely dismantle all the social welfare functions of government that define developed countries
3) do so at the behest of billionaires so that we may soon have a corporate plutocracy and thug rule replace citizen control of government
Sounds like a Soviet Sleeper Cell ....
Soviet or Russian? Could it
Soviet or Russian? Could it be that we have finally found something that you are not an expert in?
Not everyone
that disagrees with the democrats and so called "progressive" ideas are GOP supporters. Many of us are true classical liberals who believe in negative freedoms and self reliance.
I'm a liberaltarian Try to
I'm a liberaltarian
Try to wrap your head around that one!
Gotta love the kindergarten-level spin from the left
An ultra-liberal Congressman calls for violence against political adversaries just a month after the Presidents says, "it's important for us to pause for a moment and make sure that we are talking with each other in a way that heals, not a way that wounds." All is OK with the liberal Congressman's remarks though, because, "the Tea Party started it, Mommy!" Gimme a break.
Kindergarten
No medicare scooters required.
Why do you Birthers hate America and our founders who wrote things like "promote the general welfare" so much?
They're haters, plain and simple
Republicans hate America. They especially hate freedom of speech and freedom to peaceably assemble (e.g. unions). Republicans hate limitations on police power, Republicans hate that Americans have freedom from unwarranted search and seizure. Republicans hate that there is freedom of religion in this country. Republicans hate the idea that people unlike them also have rights.
You need to seriously educate
You need to seriously educate yourself.
You are just as ignorant as any 'birther' or 'teabagger'.
They're right
Especially when you realize that GOP != Conservative, at least, not anymore.
Who's getting hurt? That's the point.
As others have mentioned, Capuano is not talking about "violence against political adversaries", he's talking about the possibility of his listeners being victims of violence. His words were "get a little bloody", not make someone else bloody. And this is just the reality of political demonstrations -- the anti-oligarchy forces are damaged a lot more by the pro- than the other way around. I know this from my own experience -- minor plastic surgery once, broken ribs another, while I've never touched anyone myself -- and you can see it in Egypt, and other places.
Except he didn't
He called for his own to be ready to get bloodied up.
Context matters dude.
Time for some Woody Guthrie
... or the Dropkicks. Take your pick.
(originally written in 1931 by Florence Reece, after union busting thugs broke into her home and terrorized her and her children)
"Which Side Are You On?"
Come all you good workers
Good news to you I'll tell
Of how the good old union
Has come in here to dwell
Which side are you on boys?
Which side are you on?
My daddy was a miner
He's now in the air and sun
He'll be with you fellow workers
Until the battle's won
Which side are you on boys?
Which side are you on?
They say in Harlan County
There are no neutrals there
You'll either be a union man
Or a thug for J. H. Claire
Which side are you on boys?
Which side are you on?
Oh workers can you stand it?
Oh tell me how you can
Will you be a lousy scab
Or will you be a man?
Which side are you on boys?
Which side are you on?
Don't scab for the bosses
Don't listen to their lies
Poor folks ain't got a chance
Unless they organize
Which side are you on boys?
Which side are you on?
Better still! Stand up,
Better still!
Stand up, damned of the Earth
Stand up, prisoners of hunger
Reason thunders in its volcano
This is the eruption of the end
Of the past let us make a clean slate
Enslaved masses, stand up, stand up
The world is about to change its foundation
We are nothing, let us be all
This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race
There are no supreme saviours
Neither God, nor Caesar, nor tribune.
Producers, let us save ourselves
Decree the common salvation
So that the thief expires,
So that the spirit be pulled from its prison,
Let us fan the forge ourselves
Strike the iron while it is hot
This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race
Workers of the world, unite!
Was I the only one
who was amused the DKM snubbed senator Scott Brown after he said they were coming to play for him at his celebration party?
Wondered why the hell he thought they would. Guess he's never listened to their lyrics, and that Boston song is catchy!
Time for some Zappa...
"Why does it hurt when I pee?"
I support the unions and Capuano, even though I've got some serious criticisms of both. Yesterday's rally was good, but the behavior of some of the guys (and gals) towards the Tea Baggers was really over the top. Some of these people are scared folks who are frequently getting screwed as hard if not harder than union workers (because they have no union protections). Trying to reason with them (especially at a rally) is not going to get you far, but screaming obscenities in their faces, insulting their mothers, pushing into them -- all those intimidation tactics may be needed when dealing with hired union busters who are themselves using the same tactics on workers in or trying to form a union, but on these hapless people it really makes you look like a dick.
As does standing in front of a crowd of rowdy ironworkers and talking about getting bloody. Capuano has got all the class of a 30 db fart during mass. Of course well timed flatulence can be a great mood lifter, but NOT ALL THE TIME. They need to install an off switch on his ass. Which is one of the reasons why I don't think he would ever cut it as a Senator. It takes class to make passes at men in the next stall over, after all.
I didn't see any pushing,
I didn't see any pushing, myself. In fact, I thought rather well of Massachusetts in how peaceful things seemed. I saw about 40 anti-union, tea-party, whatever, counter-demonstrators there, and they were not separated from the 1000+ good guys by a police cordon or anything of the sort -- in fact, the police presence was quite small. And, as I say, all I saw was people arguing in reasonably courteous discussions with no suggestion of rough conduct.
But I do agree that the speakers were more insulting to the "Tea Party" people than I thought right. I agree, many of them are good people who I see as dupes of the oligarchy. They see things going wrong, and don't understand that it's the fruit of 30 years of Reaganomics. On the contrary, they worship Reagan, not seeing that he did everything he could to screw the comman man (or woman). But,
unfortunately, the union crowd booed loudly every time the "tea party" was mentioned.
pet peeve
I think we're in agreement, but I have to vent on one little thing. I can't stand when anyone uses "good guys" and "bad guys" when discussing anything beyond Saturday morning cartoons and old serial westerns. There are no good or bad guys. Depending on which side of the bed I got up on, I usually feel that people all suck ass on ice or really are good at heart. But to think that one side is "good" is the beginning of the end.
One side definitely has a more accurate view of what I would think most people agree to as reality (exactly what caused our current economic malaise?...working people pushing for the best benefits they could get?....I don't think so), but to think of that side as being on the side of the angels and the others are "bad guys" is to become a Glen Beck type of moron. (Sorry, I know you probably aren't a two-dimensional thinking douchenozzle, but like I said it's a pet peeve -- some people freak over toilet lid positions.)
I have no problem with people booing loudly, it's the personal insults right into someone's face that are uncalled for and I witnessed about three "kerfuffles" that were definitely initiated by union guys. I have no love for T-Bagrz, but like you said, they're confused, scared and easily manipulated -- not evil people. Now Dick Cheney...I'd scream "YOU UGLY FUCKIN HAG" in his face any day (and subsequently get hauled off by Secret Service agents).
I agree with both comments above
And I understand why the Tea Party planned a counter protest at the same time and at the same place. I think both protests went well but I think its regrettable that the Tea Party folks have been convinced that they should advocate for worse benefits for others, instead of better benefits for everyone. United we stand, divided we beg.
Post-rally talk of "union thugs" (Boston Herald, Fox, talk radio) is negative PR, a campaign to discredit public sector workers as people and as a result discredit their their argument. Public sector workers are your neighbors, your kids' teachers, police and firemen.
If there were so-called "union thugs" at the rally we would have reports of scores of people being taken to the ER, instead of stories about Capuano using the word "bloody" and Michael Graham have his megaphone slapped out of his hand.
yehbut...
Nothing got anywhere near "bloody," but a couple of counter protesters did file complaints with the cops who were there. The cops spoke to the union guys and a couple of organizers sort of escorted the guys in question off to the side. Which is to say that there was unsportsman-like behavior infractions, but nothing that any cop was going to pursue as an actual assault.
One of the more humorous complaints came from a guy in a Howie Carr hat (whom I think I recognize from immigration rallies -- he's the lone "no amnesty" guy) who was standing on the snow-snot pile in front of the Shaw Memorial shouting, until the iron workers got up there to out shout him and eventually "pushed me off the pile," as was explained to the cops. It just sounded so 4th grade playground, that I think the cop had a hard time not laughing.
They were trivial events, but they did happen.
I don't know...
Maybe you got the clap from one of your purple-shirted D-bagger buddies. If you're going to make a reference to Zappa, try to stay on topic with it.
Great song!
D-baggers?
Great Zappa song and it illustrates a couple of issues around unions and this country that I've found very true.
Yup. The unions need some serious housecleaning at the high end. If you think janitors, hospital and hotel workers are getting the same sort of perks that the musicians union that Frank was always squabbling with was receiving, you're very mistaken. And if you were wondering where Frank would fall on the whole T-Bagrz issue, I suspect we'd have a 3 hour opera on the topic by now.
More importantly Frank illustrates a very common issue in this country. He was a genius and worked hard and made his fame and fortune. Had a lot of strong views on liberty and self-reliance. His less talented family has been sucking off of that work ever since his death. His kids aren't bad musicians/entertainers, but let's face it, they're no Frank. And his widow is working the mustache brand for all its worth.
In miniature that's what is happening in the U.S.; a few Zappas in this world really make something from nothing (excepting whatever position of dominant culture privilege they may enjoy but not recognize) and then an orbiting constellation of secondary producers surround that talent and say they got theirs by their hard work and talent too. And anyone else that isn't making it just isn't a Zappa like them.
But your complaint is valid, so from here on out I'll stay on topic.
Blue Mass is not aghast. Blue
Blue Mass is not aghast. Blue Mass is mostly making excuses and rationalizing.
Sean Hannity has been pronouncing it
Coop-e-ano all day long. What a maroon!
Single-party state
Capuano has run unopposed for his seat 5 times. I suspect he could raise a Libyan flag and swear fealty to Qaddafi, and still keep his seat in 2012.
Go pound sand
If I didn't want Mike Capuano representing me, I'd vote for someone else. Take your red herring and get lost.
Huh?
Vote for somebody else? But he's always unopposed...
My point was just that this is sound and fury signifying nothing. Capuano can shoot his mouth off and say things that some people might not like, and he'll still be in the House in 2013, 2015, etc.
Me, I like colorful political rhetoric. Agree or not, I'd rather have a pol speaking his mind than being all mealy mouthed.
Speaking your mind
Speaking your mind thoughtfully, and running your mouth for your base are really two separate things.
Example Palin, who talks a big game, but as her reality show showed, is nothing but a house of smoke and mirrors. She can't use guns, she can't hunt, she can't run government, ect, ect, ect.
Anyways, the nomination is open, why don't you run? Put up your platform and let you peers decide. Let'll let you know how crazy you are compared to them.
Patriot Ledger:Capuano's defiant apology suggests deeper problem
When even the far-left Patriot Ledger has their doubts about a liberal darling like Capuano, Houston we have a problem.
"'Nothing wrong with throwing a coffee cup at someone if you’re doing it for human rights,' (Capuano) said."
"The 59-year-old Somerville resident, who has often said anger and ego drive him, is said to be considering a run for Scott Brown’s seat in the Senate. Yet his words and attitudes continue to paint a picture of a man who may lack the temperament, judgment and self-control needed for any position in which success depends on consensus building and reasoned leadership."
--The Patriot Ledger, "Our Opinion" Feb. 25, 2011
-----------------------
http://www.patriotledger.com/topstories/x945638684...
When there are people like
When there are people like Scott Walker in the Republican party privatizing professional civil service jobs and putting citizens out of work, I want a guy like Mike Capuano fighting for me in government.