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Comments
Thank you very much, anti
Thank you very much, anti-immunization shit-for-brains.
With 7-10 days of hopes and
With 7-10 days of hopes and prayers this person will be healed of their measles! Who needs vaccines.
How the hell do you know this
How the hell do you know this person is ant-vaccine?
because
Its not just this incident, its happening more and more due to the anti vaxers.
The worst has yet to come I think.
Anti-vax loons, international
Anti-vax loons, international air travel to more places than ever, and illegal immigration = more pathogens and vulnerable carriers circulating than ever.
YES!
Lets turn this debate into one about illegal immigrants.. /sarcasm
Whatever dude.. *eye roll*
I agree, this debate isn't
I agree, this debate isn't about illegal immigration. But, can you deny that it isn't contributing? If you don't know who is coming into our country, how do you know they are not carriers?
When my grandparents came, they had to be vaccinated and go through a health check. I'm not sure if that's still the case
Actually, the US is lagging here
A lot of countries do have comprehensive vaccination, even when they lack some basic public health infrastructure. In areas with low vaccination rates, the Gates Foundation has gotten involved in a big way.
It is high "bang for the buck" public health to systematically vaccinate your kids in developing countries.
According to data from the World Bank, Mexico vaccinates 99% of its children for measles, as do China and Cuba and Brazil and Korea. Vietnam is at 96%. El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras are all at 93%. These are the biggest source countries of undocumented immigrants (About 85% of the total, Mexico being the overwhelmingly largest source).
The US is at 92%.
SOURCE
For measles yes. Pertussis
For measles yes. Pertussis and TB vax on the other hand are seriously lagging south of the border.
TB Vaccine?
That isn't routinely administered in the US, either.
The CDC only revised its pertussis vaccination recommendations for adults about two years ago, meaning a lot of US adults are not yet up to date.
Asking people to disprove a
Asking people to disprove a negative does not work.
My husband had to be
My husband had to be immunized, and test negative for HIV, before he was allowed permanent residency in the US.
That said, I don't want to turn this into a thread about immigration.
People traveling without
People traveling without immunizations are more likely than not to be illegal. Visa and passport controlled travel tends to have paperwork associated with it providing proof of immunization. Quarantine procedures also exist at border entry points for people showing signs of being very ill. Not so much if someone sneaks in without any sort of checkpoint.
Any sources for that?
When it comes to measles, you are quite wrong (see above).
Consider as well that Mexico is quite aggressive about vaccinating all their kids, and Mexicans are >60% of undocumented migrants.
Where are you getting your information?
Illegal my ass...
In 2006, a Boston measles outbreak was brought to you by the H1B Visa program, which is entirely legal:
http://www.boston.com/yourlife/health/diseases/articles/2006/06/10/measl...
How ridiculous ... there are
How ridiculous ... there are many, many times more people entering the country from *everywhere* legally than illegally. Think tourists.
I hope the far right keeps its head up its ass worrying about the illegals and the gays, Hillary will sail into office and we can continue to get some actual shit done.
Nice... Way to politicize this...
Because it's all about whoever you're a fanboy/girl of getting in I office.
LOL
"...we can continue to get some actual shit done."
Like LITERALLY destroy the country?
Enjoy eight years of
Enjoy eight years of President Clinton, loser.
continue?....... Actual shit?
continue?....... Actual shit? Your comment is actual shit.
If you suspect the anti-vax movement, you're probably
right, especially if the victim grew up here. The CDC attributes the recent spike in measles cases in the USA largely to the unvaccinated. Prior to the rise of anti-vax idiocy, measles had largely been eradicated in the US; the few cases that popped up here were almost always visiting foreigners.
Jenny Mccarthy, one of the
Jenny Mccarthy, one of the most outspoken anti-science/anti vaccine people, was recently selected by one of the e-cig companies to be their spokesperson, which is pretty insane for any company that wants to seem legitimate to associate with an insane person.
I don't think "seeming
I don't think "seeming legitimate" is too high on their list of priorities. "Big boobs", on the other hand...
We don't know that this
We don't know that this patient is anti-vax, but we can almost surely blame anti-vaxers for the fact the patient was exposed.
Some people cannot be vaccinated due to health conditions
Some people cannot be vaccinated due to age (babies <1 year)
Some vaccinations don't take
Some vaccinations partially wear off
Those people are protected by the herd immunity that comes with having everyone ELSE vaccinated so they won't be exposed when they are at risk.
That herd immunity is lost when anti-vaxers stop vaccinating themselves or their children. As noted elsewhere, the outrage isn't so much when anti-vaxers contract a disease (though their children are also victims) but when their activities put innocent bystanders (such as my <1 year old baby) at risk.
As for the comment about how people got/recovered from measles pre-vaccine, this is true, except for the 3 in a thousand who died. Also, the 20% of people who were hospitalized certainly didn't have a cheap experience and that cannot be argued to be anything close to an efficient use of resources today.
How many measles victims who
How many measles victims who survive end up blind, or with other permanent problems?
Depends
It depends on what complication(s) occurred, medical attention received, and luck of the draw.
~6% of measles cases develop pneumonia, which can be deadly. About 1 in 1000 develop encephalitis, and many of those have lasting neurological impacts.
I'm guessing (hoping) that
I'm guessing (hoping) that this is sarcastic, and possibly looking for some confirmation that you aren't serious. Because, as you know, there are some whackos who actually think this way.
Considering the number of
Considering the number of other factors (foreign born for instance, allergy to the vaccine), to automatically attribute this case with no known information to an incredible small extremist group of people is pretty reaching.
The problem with that argument is that
the measles vaccine is highly effective: again, we eradicated measles in this country. So if you're not a foreign national, and you caught measles, it is almost an utter certainty that it's because you didn't get vaccinated. How do you imagine that happened if you aren't an anti-vaxer or a child of one? Do you have any idea how low the incidence of severe allergic reactions to the MMR vaccine are?
There is a group of people of a certain age
As Swirly mentioned below, there is a group of people born in the 60s that either were not vaccinated, or were vaccinated with a vaccine that wasn't very good, so their immunity status is in question. So there are actually quite a few people in the susceptible group that are not foreign nationals or anti-vaccine people, which makes vaccination of everyone else so much more important.
If you had measles, however,
If you had measles, however, you're immune. It's like a much riskier version of the vaccine.
Still, I think everyone should get a booster.
Or at the least
Check to see if you are up to date on your vaccinations. A booster isn't really needed if you were born in the 80s and have two doses of MMR. Born in the 60s and have no idea where your vaccine records are? Worth checking either a titer or maybe getting another dose of MMR.
The worst part of these measles exposures? Being told you can't work for three weeks because you do not have documentation of immunity to measles.
You can lose immunity...
... over time; I had rubella prior to the vaccine being available, and was still required an MMR booster on entry to college. When I got married, they tested me for rubella antigens and I failed, so I was vaxed again. When my daughter was in preschool, they re-vaxed me for DPT as well.
A lot of the vaccines have a 10-15 year window; if you know that you or a family member has lost immunity previously, you may want to get checked. Or, since vaccines tend to be covered by insurance, just get a booster anyway.
My daughter...
My daughter was vaccinated on schedule with all her vaccines. However, she did not develop titers to most of them. She has severe asthma and has been on high dose steroids repeatedly. That is most likely the cause. I only know this because they did extensive testing on her for other reasons. She had to be re-vaccinated and retested with each one individually. Took quite a few months and in the meantime, she was susceptible to lots of communicable diseases. Don't assume so much about people you don't know about.
Having mono...
.. can also knock off a lot of previously-acquired immunities.
I mentioned this, below
And it is all the more reason that those of us without such immunity issues be vaccinated.
When I was in high school, I had a friend who (at that time) couldn't be vaccinated due to an allergy to the serum they used at the time (not a problem with newer technology). So he volunteered at vaccination drives and hounded everyone else to get their vaccines so that he wouldn't get sick!
Newsworthy?
When I was young, measles were a common occurrence. Kids got them, then recovered quickly and were good as new. Nobody was horrified. Granted, its far better that measles is basically eliminated these days, but I just don't get the horrified pearl clutching that goes on now when a case of measles shows up. I still can't grasp that when someone gets measles now it's a newsworthy event.
Back in the day
Except when they didn't. Kids died of measles-related pneumonia or encephalitis. Kids went deaf and/or blind from measles. The fact that you (and I, as a matter of fact) survived measles without incident means that we were lucky, not that measles isn't a big deal.
Deaf actress Marlee Matlin
I suppose you would say that the world would have been deprived of a wonderful deaf actress, had she not had that horrendous case of measles as a toddler.
The one that destroyed her ability to hear.
She lost her hearing a few months before the vaccine became available.
We have vaccines for measles because PEOPLE DIED, WENT DEAF, WENT BLIND. You are probably too young to have seen the damage.
Serious questions for Swirly
1) Do you work? Like, a job that requires that you do more than punch in at 8 and allows you comment on forums all day?
2) Do you actually think a single person on this site seeks, or better yet, values you opinion?
3) Are you literally this insane/insufferable or are you just the best troll on the internet?
Um ...
I think a doctoral degree in epidemiology is more than enough background for commenting on a vaccination thread.
Your qualifications? Beyond being a "bridge substructure inspector"?
I got measles as an adult
which is very serious and it can be very dangerous. I was lucky and did not end up in the hospital like my co-worker, who did not fare so well.
I don't think most folks are getting "horrified" but those in the medical community, in general, have a real concern because there is an increase in outbreaks.
Not everyone was as good as new.
One of my younger brothers got pneumonia from measles, at age 3, during the 1960's, and ended up at BCH for 3 weeks. For awhile, he was a very sick kid.
Back in the day ...
there was at least one dead kid from a now-preventable illness in your elementary school.
And for me that was after the polio and diphtheria vaccines.
If you're an adult, get a
If you're an adult, get a measles booster!! I think this is especially true if you ride the subway--we all get exposed to so much (literally and figuratively) on public transit.
There was a scary case in NYC recently where a woman in her 20s--who had been vaccinated on the normal schedule--was diagnosed with measles. I guess it was believed that if you had been vaccinated, you had a small chance of contracting measles as the immunity wore off over time, but that you wouldn't be able to transmit the virus. Well, guess what? She transmitted it, and at least two of the people who contracted it also had documentation that they had been previously vaccinated.
Full article here: http://news.sciencemag.org/health/2014/04/measles-outbreak-traced-fully-...
So, "thanks" to the anti-vaccine crowd, all that herd immunity we depended on for the added layer of post vaccine protection (and, to be honest, what the anti-vaccine crowd depended on to keep them disease free) is gone. WAY TO GO!!!
So, "thanks" to the anti
Yes, this is the biggest problem. If it was just anti-vaxxers' kids getting sick, it wouldn't be as much of an issue. But the whole vaccination schedule is based on the assumption that virtually everyone gets vaccinated, so most people won't be exposed to the disease in the wild. Google the story of the woman in California who was vaccinated as a child but contracted whooping cough thanks to one of her kid's schoolmates' ignorant, selfish parents.
That, anon, is the reason for the pearl clutching. None of us wants to subject ourselves or our kids to much more rigorous vaccination regimens because some fucked-up piece of shit thinks Jennie McCarthy knows more about medical science than their kid's doctor.
My aunt works in a school,
My aunt works in a school, and she came down with pertussis!
You know that the anti-vaxers are going around saying that whooping cough, "isn't that bad." SERIOUSLY, WTF???
I got a pertussis booster, too. I'd really encourage everyone to talk to their doctors about getting immunizations updated. If it makes sense for you, then do it.
I was exposed at a reasarch meeting
In 2012, I went to a research program meeting for a multi-center program. One of the researchers, an academic in his 60s, had just returned from a trip to China.
He was coughing horribly the whole time.
About two weeks later, we all got e-mails saying that it was pertussis.
I had a booster when my department head brought it back from Latin America in 2001, and another in 2011. I had a miserable, but not dangerously strong reaction to that later one (goose egg arm).
Worth it!
A note about measles transmission
Yes, willfully unvaccinated people are responsible for most of it, BUT:
1. Infants cannot be vaccinated for measles until they are nearly a year old - they can get measles, spread measles (they also die from measles, meaning herd immunity is important here), but you can't blame their parents for any of this.
2. If you were in the early wave of vaccinated people, you might not have full immunity anymore unless you received a booster after age 12. This would be the 35-45 year old age group.
3. If you are over 50, you may not have been vaccinated at all (no requirement in most places) and you may not have had measles due to the vaccination of younger people. (this is the age group that is currently vectoring whooping cough into the US via foreign travels) My own mother somehow escaped mumps, but got a very nasty case at age 40 due to unvaccinated, infectious children in the doctor's waiting room.
4. If you have primary immune system problems, even if you have been vaccinated, you might not have the immunity that other vaccinated people do.
If you have questions as to whether you are fully immune, even if you have been vaccinated, request a titer from your physician. This is a measurement of immune response. Or, you can just opt for a booster vaccine.
Question
Swirly, how about those of us who are over 50, never vaccinated, but did have measles? Should I consider a booster?
Ask your doctor about that
The common wisdom is that you should be good to go ... but I don't know for sure. Your options are to have a titer (test of immune response) or a booster.
When I worked at Mass General, they checked everyone for immunity, and one of my coworkers had had measles but had a low titer, so it is possible that you are vulnerable.
The vaccine also covers Mumps, so you might consider it anyway if you haven't had mumps, either. But you should bring this up with your doctor.
Titers
Now that you mention it, I work in a Boston hospital (although not in patient care) and I've had titers done a couple of times in the past 10 years. Have probably had MMR to cover the mumps part, even though I've had both measles and rubella.
Vaccine or titers, either way
For public health purposes, you are considered immune if you have two valid doses of measles-containing vaccine (given after one year of age and at least a month between doses), or if you have a positive measles titer, which means that you have been exposed to measles either through natural infection or vaccination and have ample antibody protection to protect you.
Also, if you were born in the US before 1957, it is usually assumed that you have had measles, due to the rates of infection at that time and how contagious it is. For healthcare workers, however, this rule doesn't apply, you need to show vaccination or titers. If you work at a hospital, they should be able to provide you with titers as a part of Occupational Health.
Many states allow exemption
Many states allow exemption for vaccination for sincerely held philosophical beliefs. I know CA. is one those states. So, right or wrong, this is a civil liberties issue for some.
However there is a Uhub irony here. In some states, the legislatures have ignored scientific evidence about the efficacy of vaccinations; other states like Mass have ignored the preponderance of scientific evidence that pot has little medical benefit and legalized medical marijuana. So it isn't unusual for the left and the right to ignore science.
And I think that allowing voters to think that civil liberties should trump science evidence is a dangerous precedent. Unlike Mass, the Maine medical pot law was pretty specific about covered illnesses. Now the medical marijuana people want to include more illnesses. The process is the Maine State health dept reviews the medical evidence; if the gov't decides the evidence is lacking and refuses to add the illness to the approved list then the issue of whether the illness should be treated with pot can go to the voters. Where is would likely pass.
PS... I know that not 100% of doctors agree that pot has no medical benefits; it is like global warming; 100% of scientists don't think global warning is man-made... only 97% do.
The science is slightly different
There is a bit of difference between "we haven't studied the potential medial benefits of marijuana enough" and "here are the benefits of vaccines". Granted, I am not up to speed with any new medical marijuana studies, but my general impression up to now was that it was difficult to perform decent, scientifically valid studies because marijuana was illegal. Maybe new studies in states with medical marijuana exemptions will help.
Also, regarding vaccinations, all states allow for a medical exemptions, 48 allow for religious exemptions, and 17 allow for a philosophical exemption (and Massachusetts, thankfully, is not one of them).