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And it all started here
By adamg on Fri, 06/26/2015 - 10:20am
Supreme Court rules gay couples have the right to marry.
The Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court issued its Goodridge decision on Nov. 18, 2003; the first marriages under the ruling took place on May 17, 2004.
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Good Week for America
^
Funny court for the GOP
The street level politics seem to be equally fixated on corporate rights and conservative social policies. The court is all in on the first, but not the second. So we get gay marriage but also corporate 'free speech' and 'personhood'. I guess that's better than the reverse.
Maybe
I fully support gay marriage but given the choice between the two I'd take limited corporate rights over marriage rights. Marriage won't impact more important political policy. Who cares if you're married or not when you can't drink the polluted water.
Can't we have good decisions on both topics?
Tough call
It's a tough call - there will be ebb and flow for and against corporate rights I think as the make-up of the court and congress shifts over time. I think that genie can more easily be put back in the bottle whereas the fundamental individual rights established by the gay marriage ruling should remain the law of the land barring a total theocratic revolution here.
Why conflate the two?
But since we are on the topic, I couldn't agree more. I think the New York Times and its corporate parent should not be advocating political positions and candidates using their millions of dollars of corporate money to influence politics. When will the Supreme Court take away free speech from assemblies of people aka corporations?
sarcasm alert!
It will be a good day to listen to Rush Limbaugh
After yesterday's ruling on the ACA, they had to take his belt and shoelaces away. But he may be able to get the desired result from apoplectic implosion with this one.
Glenn Beck today
is so distraught over the end of the Republic, he started huffing lines again.
I'll definitely be tuning into ole Cap'n Howie today. Let's remember folks, gay friendly Subaru is one of his major sponsors. I wonder how Ernie Boch Jr, CEO of Subaru New England will feel about that decision to sponsor Carr when ole lardass starts spouting off about how gay marriages aren't "real".
Glenn Beck
He should start huffing gas...
true
It'll be good to huff something other than farts for once.
Glenn Beck is PRO-gay
Glenn Beck is PRO-gay marriage.
Totes!
http://www.mediaite.com/online/glenn-beck-concerned-for-straight-people-...
aka- don't say stupid shit you can't cite
Glenn Beck is not anti-gay marriage
Glenn Beck is a libertarian. He is not anti-gay marriage.
http://mic.com/articles/21068/where-is-glenn-beck-on-gay-marriage-5-reas...
Glenn Beck
is for whatever keeps the wingnut dollars flowing in.
Does this mean
Does this mean Rick Perry, Rick Santorum, and all the rest of the anti-gay marriage crowd will leave the United States now?
(I think Rick "shit stain" Santorum said he would leave the county if gay marriage became legal everywhere)
We can only hope.
We can only hope.
No need to add "shit stain"
No need to add "shit stain" to his name. The definition of his last name says it all.
yeah
a shit stain is what happens after some Santorum ;)
Also anyone ever notice his last name is very close to Sanitarium?
So what does this mean exactly?
This is obviously great, but I'm a little ignorant as to exactly what this means. Is gay marriage now legal in all 50 states? Or does this just mean that all 50 states need to acknowledge gay marriages that were performed in states where it is legal? Something else? I hope it's the first one.
State bans on same-sex
State bans on same-sex marriage are unconstitutional and void. Those states must grant marriage licenses and all accompanying rights and privileges to same-sex couples seeking them as they would to heterosexual couples. All states must recognize same-sex marriages from other states as valid.
All federal rights, too
This also means that all married couples are treated equally when it comes to things like Social Security and disability payments, pensions, etc.
The anti-DOMA decision was not a complete fix. This is. Married is married, period.
Except
Apparently the federal government is still allowed to discriminate against married single-sex couples when processing visa and citizenship applications. Nothing in the ruling applies to foreign governments and it will require an affirmative response from congress (please hold your breath) to remedy that particular situation.
It means we all have to get gay married
I mean, that's what the wingnuts make it sound like so that has to be it.
Correction
We all have to get gay married to all our brothers and sisters, and our pets.
Wait...
...does that mean I have to marry Markkk? I sure hope he can cook.
13 states breathe a sigh of relief
Now none of the foot dragging states have to worry about being infamous for being the last state to enter the modern era.
There will be some county
There will be some county official somewhere in at least one of these states that will refuse to abide by this decision. I'm almost sure of it. There may be governors who refuse to for all we know - looking at you especially Texas Governor Greg Abbott. Will be curious to see what the Justice Department does at that point to force them to abide by it.
Texas has actually already
Texas has actually already issued licenses. I've also heard reports of Kentucky, Georiga and South Dakota doing the same.
Mississippi is apparently refusing, shocking few.
Georgia
Some friends of mine who were married in Ptown a few summers ago, went down to Cobb County's Courthouse and got married today. Sure their MA marriage is now legal (as it wasn't before today), but they wanted to just celebrate in their home state.
There's a live stream somewhere (I think on joemygod's blog) of people getting married in Fulton County (Atlanta). Lines of people.
Somehow I don't feel like any
Somehow I don't feel like any of them were "worried".
Hooray! It's a good week for
Hooray! It's a good week for the United States.
The Only Downside to This
It took too long.
Chalk up another Revolution won that started in Mass!
I predict big parties in NYC and SF this weekend
Parades even.
Yeah, all over the country
It's not uncommon for towns to schedule their annual 4th of July festivities the week before (or after) the actual holiday. I'm going to the independence day parade in Waterbury VT this weekend to meet some friends.
Oh, honey, you don't know the half of it!
The official pride parades were in the last couple of weekends, but June is still paarrrrtay time!
LOL
oh Grrrrrrrl I just saw that Onion article on twitter.. LOL
Whoosh!
The Official parades for NYC and SF are always the last weekend in June to coincide with the anniversary of the Stonewall riots.
Really, Mark?
You don't think that I know that?
Not Sure
"The official pride parades were in the last couple of weekends" kinda showed that you didn't get the bigger picture of how pride events span months nationally and internationally and are not in a past tense.
No 'whoosh', Mark. It's
No 'whoosh', Mark. It's because your jokes, if one is generous enough to classify your utterings as such, are just not funny. Maybe update your sensibilities to this century?
Great. Now get the state out of marriage completely.
Maybe it's just semantics at this point but I'd rather the right to marry be left to the religion of your choice and have the government recognize only civil unions between adults.
If the [insert religion] church wants to set a strict rule on what defines marriage, let them -- it's their right to include or exclude anyone they want. Just as long as $35 and two signatures gets you a civil union contract down at city hall.
The Puritans (rightly) viewed marriage....
... as a civil contract.
http://people.opposingviews.com/puritan-marriage-beliefs-4508.html
The puritans came here to set
The puritans came here to set up a theocracy. So of course they wanted marriage to be officiated by the state.
Not accurate...
... but that's okay.
Actually, when it comes to civil marriage
If anything, it should be the other way around. Clergy should have no authority whatsoever sign marriage certificates, just as they aren't qualified to take other oaths and affirmations, certify copies of documents, witness signatures or acknowledge instruments. Clergy are not appointed government officials and should have no more authority to perform a ministerial act of the government, as solemnization of a marriage certificate is, than the exalted ruler of the local Elks Club, chairman of the the local homeowners association, Grand Poobah of the Loyal Order of Water Buffaloes or any other officer in any other private organization. Leave the civil side to the civic authorities and let the clergy perform whatever rituals they see fit to recognize marriage on their own. Most countries in Europe do not recognize ritual marriage ceremonies and require a civil ceremony for a couple to be legally married.
Disclaimer: I'm a justice of the peace and it may be fair to regard me as a little biased in this matter, but my authority was granted to me via a democratic appointment process. Clergy are attain that authority only by virtue of being clergy, and do not have to prove any qualifications otherwise.
Question
What does a justice of the peace do other than marry people?
Other JP duties
A JP commission comes with full notarial powers (which I use daily in my job). JPs also may witness of board meetings, witness opening of safe deposit boxes, and (I think, but am not 100% sure) an archaic vestigial authority to order crowds to disperse when accompanied by a police officer or constable or something (I remember reading something along those lines when I got literature from the Mass JP Association after joined it after I got my commission).
Yes, it all started here.
The judicial usurpation of what should be handled by legislative process.
The Loving Decision was in MA?
Really?
How is interpreting the 14th Amendment "judicial usurpation" when interpreting the constitution is what the Supreme Court is supposed to do? When all our state and federal laws have to be in accordance with the Constitution? This IS the job of the judiciary.
I'm going to make an assumption that you were born in the US (or, possibly, a green card holder) since you clearly would not pass the citizenship test for naturalization.
Yes, really.
The Chief Justice was correct on this decision and on Obamacare. Everyone should read his dissenting opinion.
See my note below on the Chief Justice's dissenting opinion
n/t
Bzzt, wrong
The legislative process is great at handling what the majority wants.
The judicial process is great at handling what the minority is owed.
Who's usurping whom?
As opposed to legislative usurpation of the Constitution? Sorry, but legislatures can not make laws that violate the rights promised to us by the Constitution. Its pretty much the main reason we have a written constitution.
Would you agree that slavery should be reinstituted in Mass?
Slavery in Massachusetts was effectively declared illegal in court cases. Apparently the Massachusetts legislature never banned slavery. Only the 13 Amendment codified that legal principle. Much of the detail can be found on the Wikipedia article. Would you agree that slavery should have remained legal in Massachusetts until the passage of the 13th Amendment?
Justice John Marshall in Marbury v. Madison established as a fundamental principle of Federal governance, and ultimately state governance, that the highest Court has the authority to determine whether a given law is or is not consistent with the highest laws of the land, the Constitution and it's amendments. The immature childish petulance of Justice Scalia notwithstanding.
Hm.
Surprisingly little commentary on Goodridge.
I thought it very interesting that (based on my skim of the 105+ pages of the slip opinion and a keyword search) neither the result, nor the reasoning of the Goodridge decision came in for criticism. The majority opinion seemed to, if not endorse, at least cite without objection, some of its reasoning. I had expected to see some pretty heavy criticism of Goodridge in the dissents. My guess is that Chief Justice (Margaret) Marshall is feeling about as overwhelmed, vindicated and validated as anyone could just now.
I have to say that while I agree personally like the result reached by the majority, I thought Chief Justice Roberts' dissenting opinion was well-written and managed to put him on the right side of history from both a personal standpoint and from the standpoint of being the Chief Justice of the court of last resort in a common law jurisdiction. I thought his discussion of Lochner and its place in history vis-à-vis today's decision was particularly interesting. Some will criticize him for wanting to have it both ways. I would say that the Executive and the members of the legislative branch should all have a good read of that dissent and appreciate it for what it is - a indictment of their inability and unwillingness to intelligently confront and discuss difficult issues.
Unfortunately
Thomas and, more to the point, Scalia shit all over his well-thought discourse with their tantrums. All anyone will talk about in the dissents will be their stupidity and childishness unfortunately.
Roberts
Roberts in a nutshell is saying the more legitimate path in his view is not through the courts but through the ballot box. A fair point albeit ignorant of the history of much social justice in this country. For example, would he say Brown v Board was wrong and instead school desegregation should have been through the voters, which we know would have taken a long long time? I doubt it.
Either way, this part from his dissent is disturbing. He's basically saying gays will now never truly be accepted in society because of this ruling. That's a chilling statement from the Chief Justice of the nation's highest court.
The Roberts Dissent
I agree with your first paragraph.
With respect to the second, I think that the CJ got one thing wrong: he used the word "forever" instead of the phrase "for a long time". I didn't find it particularly disturbing other than that one word.
Otherwise, I think the words will prove prophetic. People will use the "imposed on us by unelected judges" argument to justify their dislike of same-sex marriage for longer than they otherwise (e.g., recognition of same-sex marriage by legislative action or by referendum) would have.
I think regardless of method,
I think regardless of method, it's inevitable there will always be some people who hold same-sex marriage to be illegitimate. But look at Loving v Virginia, the Court there did not wait for the country and democratic process to catch up to it. And now Americans overwhelmingly approve of interracial marriage whereas support was very low in 1967. A decision like this is in keeping with the fast-moving tide of acceptance of same-sex couples and marriage in America, so it will only gain in legitimacy. The people complaining about the Court overstepping its bounds here are unlikely to ever be satisfied with this outcome regardless of method as I see it and will dwindle in number over time. Me thinks the Chief Justice doth protest too much.
At least Thomas isn't the chief justice
Because his dissent almost reads like a justification for slavery, what with him talking about the importance of "dignity" and how slavery didn't take that away from enslaved blacks.
How could somebody who is black himself even write that? Maybe, as Scalia said, "Ask the nearest hippie."
Romney/Obamacare started here, too
Nice to see the Supreme Court, twice in 24 hours, following a trail blazed by Massachusetts.
Good point
That said Romneycare was a well executed law. Obamacare has a lot of those good points - but a lot of other crap that needs to be fixed. Too many special interests had a hand in that pot. AND - most of all - there should be no exemptions for Congress - they should get what the rest of us get.
Titletown!
First we had yesterday's healthcare decision, now we have universal marriage rights!
And we're officially massholes, too!
Has it occurred to anyone
politicians, and even the courts, are perhaps cynically caving into gay issues to distract attention and criticism away from their lavish favoritism toward corporations and 'free trade', neoliberal economic policy? 'Progressives' in America have completed immersed themselves in all things LGTB, it's the left's 21st century litmus test for their approval. It's ideal from their standpoint because it's a highly emotional issue, and such emotional hot button issues appeal to their hardcore base and lurkers sitting on the fence. Same of course applies to self described conservatives and their emotion driven hot button issues.
When anyone tries to use primarily emotion and sentiment to get you to go along with them and their ideas, narrative, regardless the ideology being hustled, people should see this pattern as a big, red flag and be wary.
It started here
but Mrs. and Mrs. Goodrich are now divorced, and reportedly still friends, naturally.
Are they both having a Goodyear ?
So?
First, it's Ms. and Ms.
Second, it's Goodridge not Goodrich.
Third, they're not only friends. They're still raising a daughter together.
Fourth, so what?
Michel Martin. A ‘Queer’ Argument Against Marriage
Michel Martin
A ‘Queer’ Argument Against Marriage
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127740436
By Mattilda Bernstein Sycamore
That's Revolting!: Queer Strategies for Resisting Assimilation
https://books.google.com/books?id=t_EK8GjtytMC&printsec=frontcover
Thanks for the links
Thanks for posting those links. Very interesting stuff. In all this brouhaha people should know that not all of us in the LGBTQ "community" are so eager to embrace same sex marriage. But go against the mainstream agenda and we are branded "self loathing gays". How repressive.
Oscar Wilde. Lady Windermere's Fan.
Then again, on the other hand there's a model of the coupled relationship in Lady Windermere's Fan by Oscar Wilde
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/790/790-h/790-h.htm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAdfJ5UrrYM
or
The Importance of Being Earnest by Oscar Wilde
https://books.google.com/books?id=4HIWAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eymdx4xomM