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Boston city councilors to study banning plastic bags; Cambridge reports success with reusable-bag program
By adamg on Thu, 08/04/2016 - 10:40am
The City Council agreed yesterday to begin looking at the possibility of prohibiting stores from using plastic bags to package the things their customers buy.
The council agreed to a proposal by Council President Michelle Wu and Councilor Matt O'Malley (West Roxbury, Jamaica Plain) to set up a working group to study the idea over the next three months.
O'Malley said you only need to look up at tree branches to see how the bags despoil the city - right up there with the "cigarette butts, scratch tickets and Dunkin' Donuts cups" down on the curb.
Meanwhile, across the river, the Cambridge DPW reports that city's "Bring Your Own Bag" ordinance - in which residents are encouraged to shop with reusable bags, in part through a 10-cent fee for each paper bag a store gives them, has resulted in "a sizeable reduction in the consumption of single-use bags."
In order to help senior citizens and low-income residents when this Ordinance went into effect, many members of the Cambridge community contributed to a reusable bag drive organized by the Cambridge Recycling Advisory Committee. More than 8,000 bags were collected and distributed to low-income and senior residents throughout the City, and another 4,000 reusable bags were purchased to help reach Cambridge youth. Both Whole Foods Market and Star Market contributed reusable bags to this effort.
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Comments
Don't forget to wash your
Don't forget to wash your reusable bags once in a while.
First reaction, but then
My first reaction is I hate bans. And like others, I re-use the bags in lots of ways, so I like having a few around.
But then I realize how many plastic bags I pick up off the streets. And I realize how often the CVS clerk puts my random item (deodorant, greeting card) in a bag, without even asking me if I need the bag.
Let's add a charge (25 cents/bag?) rather than enact a ban. But heading in this direction is the right thing to do.
Let's not
I tell the clerk I don't need a bag when I don't. I don't always plan my purchases to the point of being able to bring a re-usable bag with me.
Ironically, these bans mostly help people who are driving to stores who have ample room in their car to leave reusable bags. For those of us who primarily walk or bike, carrying around a bag all day isn't always an option and/or isn't preferable. These bans make more sense in the suburbs and less in the city.
I see a ton of Dunkins cups and scratch tickets littering the sidewalk. Why not ban dunkins disposable cups and scratch tickets? People can always bring a coffee mug with them and the lottery isn't socially beneficial anyway.
I get the people behind these "bans" are trying to do the right thing but this isn't it.
64 million people must be wrong
The UK has a "carrier bag charge". It has worked wonders for them in place of a ban and it hasn't been a problem for all of the reasons you claim it would. They also have a lot more people who primarily walk or bike than we do, so you're wrong about that being an issue either.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/single-use-plastic-carrier-ba...
They require their stores to give the results of the charges to charities. A bit of a win-win. But, hey, what do 64 million people know, huh? You've got it all figured out.
I didn't say it was impossible
Well, seeing as how the people don't have a choice it's hard to say it worked wonders. I've spent extended times in Germany and the supermarkets tend not to have disposable bags but other shops do. The point is that it's left up to the merchant and society, not mandated by the goverment.
I actively now avoid Cambridge grocery stores as a result of their ban. Perhaps Shaws makes so much money off the bag fee as to offset the loss of sales but I suspect stores would rather not turn away customers as they feel would have have to pay more just to take the goods home.
So if Boston does this are you going to avoid shopping in both
Boston and Cambridge to save $1?
Not how Germany works
Under Germany's 1991 packaging ordinance, if you use packaging like plastic carrier bags, then you have to also offer the reverse stream of accepting them back for recycling and getting them from the bin to the recycler. Shops chose not to have the bags any more rather than deal with the logistics of collection and transport for recycling unless they felt the need to maintain the bags so badly that they provided all the infrastructure for recycling them.
The world is leaving the overused plastic bag behind and doing better for itself. Catch up or piss off.
Massachusetts has required
Massachusetts has required large grocery stores to accept plastic bags for recycling for decades. They somehow dealt with this crushing burden.
Ireland has been doing this for at least 15 years.
Not sure if it was/is the law though.
plastic bags are eyesores
Ireland did it because they realized their tourist economy was suffering from beautiful vistas being marred by plastic bags. It has done a world of difference there.
UK plan is the perfect compromise
Thanks for that post Kaz. I'm generally pro-plastic bag, despite their downsides. However, I'm willing to pay 5¢ per bag when I do need one or don't have a reusable one.
32 million also voted for
32 million also voted for Brexit so... Is this fallacy really the hill you want to die on?
reusables can fit in your purse
I have several nylon reusable bags that fit in my purse and can go in the clothes washer. I also reuse plastic bags until they break - they, too, can be scrunched up to fit in a purse.
FWIW, I am against plastic bag bans and in favor of charging people for using disposables. There are ecological costs to both plastic and paper bags. I'd much rather give people the choice of bringing their own or paying for the bags they use, which will discourage over-using disposable bags but not keep people from getting plastic when it's the better option for them,
And sometimes they don't
Often I have a backpack with me. But then sometimes I get to the store and decide to buy more then I can fit in the bag. Sometimes I jog to work and don't want to carry anything with me. Sometimes I'm wearing a suit and don't want to bring a bag with me to a meeting yet I'd like to pick up some last minute items on the way home.
I'm no opposed to disposable bags. Encourage them. But the bans or bag-fees tend to be the most inconvenient to the those who are inclined to alternate forms of transportation -- the exact people who have the smallest impact already.
The guy driving 2 miles to the store with a reusable bag is worse for the environment then the woman who walks the 2 miles but decides she needs an extra bag or two.
I guess you're going to have
I guess you're going to have to change your ways. Hopefully Massachusetts will follow suit, and then the USA. We're way behind the civilized world on this one.
Looks like the ban is on
Looks like the ban is on plastic bags, not disposable bags. Stores could still use paper bags for those who don't bring their own.
Extra bag or two?
If you are walking, you aren't going to do "an extra bag or two".
I keep reusable bags in my office because walking with the plastic ones is a pita.
Yes you are. It's simple to
Yes you are. It's simple to carry two grocery bags while walking home.
Buy one?
As has already been pointed out, many reusables are really compact. You can carry them in your backpack or your purse. If you're jogging, I guess you'd be ending your run AT the store (because you're not going to jog home carrying bags of groceries, are you)? So, in that case, if you're jogging and planning to end your run at the store, I guess you'd have to buy a reusable, which are available at low cost at most stores. It's the cost of convenience.
It ends up
Being a charge against men, honestly.
As a woman, I carry a purse with space for small purchases, and I have room for folding reusable bags in there as well. (Many fold into 3 x 3 flats.)
My male friends on the other hand, always end up charged for a bag because they don't have one on their person all the time.
Well
I am also a woman, and I hardly ever use a purse.
However, I also do not usually go to the store without one of two things: 1) my messenger bag, which is like a purse for all intents/purposes, or 2) my car, and I can keep a number of reusable bags in either (more in the car, obvi).
The only time that I routinely WANT to use a plastic bag is when I buy meat, and I want that extra layer of protection between it and the rest of my groceries.
This is the most insane thing
This is the most insane thing I've read in a while. Men can carry a bag just as easily as a woman. Gender is irrelevant.
It's not insane to point out
It's not insane to point out that gender differences exist. I think it is still common view that women carry purses more - right? Then logic would imply that men would be likely be in a situation where he would have no bag and thus pay for a bag.
Now, if you believe men and women equally carry in the same rate for bags, fine. But I wouldn't call her crazy to make such a speculation. Even if you disagree men would get impacted more.
Also from you wording, you are saying if a man can or cannot. She never said anything about ability. She said impact - number of people who would get affected. One can argue men wouldn't pay as men would just start carrying bags more (I almost always have a backpack on me - and when I go to a grocery store, I usually go by a car, which I usually have one of those shopping bags even if I almost always forget it in the car). But she wasn't talking about that.
man purse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNJk9GW79ls
What? I don't ... Wait no
What? I don't ... Wait no really, WHAT???
I'm a woman. I carry a wallet. This is a bonkers line of reasoning.
Please stop. You are hurting all of us.
Really?
The men I know carry back packs or courier bags. Easy enough to carry one or two reusable bags.
Carrying your crap is not a gendered sport.
Everywhere?
I am saying this based on observations of going shopping with my various male friends.
One of them bikes and therefore always has one of those large Chrome bike bags. He never takes a bag at stores, because his bike bag is the size of a small laundry bag.
The other three only have a bag with them if they are coming or going from work and, therefore, end up buying a bag, as neither of them works on Saturday when we're out wandering around for lunch or entertainment.
It's not a ridiculous observation. A huge part of city living is getting stuff when you're passing nearby (maybe you're near the grocery store because you had dinner plans at a restaurant a block away) instead of making a dedicated trip, like you might if you had a car. On top of that, without a car, you can't keep crap in the trunk. Walking into a restaurant with an armful of reusable grocery bags is weird, while keeping dozens of them in your trunk is not.
Yes
Everywhere. You never know if you're going to pop into a store to buy something.
OK - not if going out on a date. And then if we pop into a store, we'll pay the extra.
But if you say that you're going to the store after dinner plans, then pay the extra, too. If you're going out after dinner plans, are you really doing your shopping for the next couple of days? Really? That's how you plan things? Maybe you get what you need for first thing in the morning and then do the greater shopping after your coffee. I mean, it's the convenience of living in the city, right?
Since I don't have a car...
I primarily walk or bike. It's just as easy to keep your reusable bags in your back pack or cross-body bag or whatever carry-all you regularly use then to keep reusable bags in a trunk. And it's more likely you will bring your carry-all with the reusable bags into the store with you then the reusable bags are in the trunk of your car.
I've witnessed people saying they left the bags in their trunk, or have more bags in the trunk, but they tell the clerk to charge them for a bag or more rather then go get bags from their truck. Conversely, I might need to use/buy a store bag, but walking or biking limits how much I can carry anyways (which is good, I waste far less food by not being able to impulse buy so readily).
And to the poster further down regarding how to bring food home without plastic bags, the handles of the reusable bags fit readily over the handles of the bicycle. And reusable bags are not prone to ripping like plastic ones are. Bike baskets are great for shopping.
I do this because I'm pretty
I do this because I'm pretty sure the other people in line don't want to be held up by my ADD. If the bags (or shopping list, or phone, or car keys) are in my car, that's my humiliation to bear. I assure you that it is no preplanned attack against the environment.
But thanks for confirming that even the most trivial brain-fart is being cataloged and judged and sneered at by total strangers. Really uplifting stuff.
CVS sells reusable bags that
CVS sells reusable bags that fold up in a smaller bag. I carry it in my pockets. Very useful if you buy small things thru out the day.
I despise those bags
I have the opposite view. Those bags are stuck up in trees and bushes throughout the city and are the most obnoxious litter because they make noise and are often stuck in inaccessible locations.
I used to live next to a large apartment building and couldn't open my windows in the summer due to the incessant flapping of bags that routinely blew out of the dumpsters and lodged in the trees outside my windows.
I even climbed up and pulled them all down so I could read and sleep with the windows open but it was hopeless. There were just more of them in the trees the next day.
I already use reusable shopping bags that easily fit in a backpack or messenger bag which I always have while walking or biking.
I have cats. Plastic bag bans
I have cats. Plastic bag bans mean I have to buy additional plastic bags for litter. For lining small bins in bedrooms etc. For sorting and storing craft materials. (Looove the sturdier black bags and 5c reusables.) Plus, paper bags are actually worse for the environment in some ways. Recycled paper uses huge amounts of energy and chemical pollutants, it's not exactly "green."
Can we punish the actual criminals for a change, please? This once? Littering is already punishable by fines but I guess it's too much effort to expect LEO to get out of their cruisers and write a ticket.
I bought a grabber/cutter pruning tool after one plastic bag in 5 years got caught in the tree in front of my house. Ten seconds after I unboxed it, no more plastic bag. Astounding.
Infeasible
You'd have to have 2 cops for everyone else to have enough eyes out there to catch all the litterers. It's not going to happen.
That's why there are bans and deposits. (I heard of a city that had deposits on cigarette butts!)
Instead of "punishing the criminals"...
How about, instead of worrying about punishing criminals, we simply quit subsidizing plastic bags? That you are getting them "for free" at the supermarket, means that someone else is eating the full system-wide costs.
Fee
Hmm. I'd support a dime fee (dime bags, he he he). Or more. An outright ban seems like a less ideal situation. We use those bags for kitty litter cleaning, and I know lots of people use them for other things, so having access to them is nice. But reducing their use would be fantastic too.
"a sizeable reduction in the
"a sizeable reduction in the consumption of single-use bags."
Ok, that's the feature. What's the benefit?
Is there any evidence of fewer plastic bags ending up in trees or waterways? What about reduced pollution from incinerators? Probably not reduced greenhouse gases, since paper bags are less efficient in that regard.
If I ever forget to bring my bags, I have no idea how I'd get my groceries home by bicycle under a plastic bag ban.
Who needs data?
HEY, why should they provide hard data to back up their bans. If it feels right it must be right.
Shipping materials to the store makes up a far, far larger amount of waste then what is needed to get the products from the store to consumer's houses. Furthermore, American product packaging is hugely wasteful: think of the products that come in a bag inside a box.
Disposable plastic bags aren't good but simply banning them (or requiring a charge) is a heavy handed and misdirected approach.
What?
Forgive me for stepping on your rant, but:
1) Who's "they"?
2) How do you know "they" haven't?
The Answer
"They" in this case would start with local governments or research organizations. It would be nice if they could point to legitimate studies showing the before/after effects on bag bans insofar as environmental changes that have happened as a result. Perhaps such studies have been done but I haven't been able to find anything beyond people speculating and complaining about bags in trees. (Oh, and by studies it would be reasonable to only look at ones that analyze US businesses and consumers and American consumer behavior isn't interchangeable with Europe's.)
There are lots of laws which would incentive meaningful environmental changes. Banning (or mandating a charge for) plastic bags isn't one of them -- at least not by any study I've seen.
"They"
Haven't done anything yet. "They're" setting up a working group:
If you've got such a huge opinion about this, maybe you find out which Councilors will be on the working group and if they will have a public seat on it - and apply. Or help find studies that you think tell the story you want them to hear and pass them along.
1) "They" is the Cambridge
1) "They" is the Cambridge city government.
2) I googled it and didn't find anything. It's on "them" to provide evidence that backs up the ban.
Improper role of government
Government is supposed to be the umpire, not the team manager.
It's not the government's job to tell people not to use bags. It's the government's job to make sure that the price the end user pays to use a bag fairly reflects the overall costs of using that bag (e.g., costs of pollution, costs of trash clean up; costs of waste disposal; systemwide costs of petroleum feedstock, etc.)
This would be done by imposing a tax, not on bags, but on the conversion of raw petroleum feedstock into polyethylene. That automatically makes it cheaper for the end user at the grocery store to reuse a bag rather than taking a new one; cheaper for the bag manufacturer to use recycled polyethylene than virgin, and cheaper for the supermarket to buy from the manufacturer that uses recycled poly rather than virgin.
Ah, the libertarian approach to improving everything
Good idea. This way the rich can afford to trash the earth and make someone else clean up after them without giving it any concern. The poor have to bring their own bowls to the counter and ask if they can please have some more porridge.
Quite the contrary....
Who do you think benefits from the current scheme under which we, de-facto, subsidize the hell out of the extractive industries?
Hint: It's not the poor.
I'm proposing that the people who benefit from something that costs society as a whole, should pay for that cost.
That's completely independent of whether we do or don't want to give the poor a hand.
End user
How does that affect the end user if stores don't charge for bags?
Stores have a choice.
Who's to say that stores won't charge for the bags?
Grocery stores are a very low-margin business. If stores need to pay the fully loaded cost of the bags, they're going to need to either charge for the bags or bake it into their prices. That would be their choice. In either case, the end user is paying for the bag, either through an explicit charge for the bag or through slightly higher prices on the groceries.
Still doesn't make sense
So if I'm a store owner I have two choices, charge or don't charge. If it's like an Aldi, and built on the concept of no waste and frivolities, go ahead and charge. If it's just a regular convenience corner store, charging is likely to push customers away to other stores that don't charge. (See: no one charges for bags currently.) Raising the wholesale cost of the bags doesn't change that.
Now, as customers, if there is a charge per bag, we have an incentive to use as few as possible. If it's just baked into the price of all the goods, there is no such incentive.
As a society, we want people to use fewer bags because of the pollution involved in extracting the raw materials, making the bags, shipping them, recycling them, putting them in landfills, and littering with them. So, if you want to tax them wholesale, and use the revenue to fix their problems, I have no problem with that, so long as it's combined with a more effective fee per bag.
F'ing unbelievable!
We live in a place with, in average, a lot of precipitation where the tissue thin paper bags stores in Cambridge and Brookline now hand out will fall apart quickly if they contain anything more than a pair of designer socks. Unless you're walking from the store to a car, paper bags suck and are inferior to plastic. As far as recycling ,most people do indeed reuse plastic bags; it's paper bags that won't be reused.
I use paper bags when my
I use paper bags when my reusable one doesn't fit everything or I forgot it. I've walked a mile in the rain from the store with no problem using a paper bag.
I've walked less than 10
I've walked less than 10 yards from the store to my car and had the paper bag completely disintegrate on the way, sending pasta salad all over the parking lot. The plural of anecdote is not data.
Spag's
Spag's was so ahead of the times!
It sounds like this only
It sounds like this only applies to plastic, but then they say any single use bag -- I hope this doesn't apply to paper. We reuse paper bags to keep our recycling in.
using paper bags for recycling
Me too, which is my biggest problem with the Cambridge-version of this policy. My town does not have single stream recycling. If I don't have paper bags, my paper to be recycled will blow all over the curb on pickup day. I prefer paper bags for grocery shopping and use the ones from TJs and WFM for recycling. I own reusable bags too and do use them, but for produce, fish, meat, etc I prefer the paper bags. Has it stopped me from shopping in Cambridge? No. Do I buy fewer groceries per trip in Cambridge? Yes.
As another poster stated, I remember the old days when groceries were packed in paper sacks, and we survived just fine.
Doing away with plastic bags is a great idea. Restricting brown paper bags is not.
It sounds terrible!
In practice, it's really no big deal. People figure it out. Different strategies for motorists and for peds, for men and for women, for joggers, those in suits, or those who wear yoga pants.
I've lived in places that charge for bags (Ireland, DC), places that prohibit them in large stores (Brookline), and in places that prohibit them in all stores (SF).
People figure it out. And, the stricter the ordinance, the less often you see plastic bags in trees, plastic bags clogging storm water drains, etc.
Don't you know?
Nothing has ever happened outside of Boston before it happened in Boston
Boston is different
It doesn't matter if it has been successful for a decade elsewhere because the outside world does not exist.
Any change will always be catastrophic.
Interesting
San Francisco is still a filthy city.
In my experience they "figure
In my experience they "figure it out" by putting unwrapped seafood in a leaky paper bag that stinks up the whole car, using tissue-paper bags whose handles rip off halfway across the parking lot, putting tiny things in HUGE bleached paper bags that consume massively more resources than plastic to manufacture, and then making you buy loads more plastic for the things plastic shopping bags were already good for.
It's greenwashing and it's a crock. I'm for most environmental measures (carbon tax! Gas tax hikes!!) but this one is so stupid it hurts.
Not going to reach you
But every one of your complaints either has a simple solution, is cartoonishly overblown, or is flat out probably wrong.
But since you didn't come here to learn how wrong you are, I'll just leave it at that.
Plastic bags aren't easily recyclable
They require a different collection system because they apparently don't get recycled in single sort methods.
A ban doesn't sound like a bad idea for sustainability. Other places have already done that.
The Cambridge plastic ban works
I work in a bookshop in Cambridge. I can tell you first hand that I've gone from giving out a plastic bag to almost every customer to giving out five to ten paper bags a day post-ban. By the ordinance we have to keep track of bag sales. The data is there. It's just been a massive reduction. For the most part people have had largely positive reactions to the ban. Older people grumble a bit but that's basically it. It's saved the shop a ton of money in buying bags while at the same time reducing the amount of plastic that ends up in landfills and storm drains. I was highly skeptical that the ordinance would work out, but overall it's been a win-win for the city, the shop and the environment. As a resident of Boston I hope the city sees fit to enact a plastic bag ban. It makes good sense.
How will I keep my new book
How will I keep my new book dry during a rainy walk home?
Has your store tracked sales on rainy days since the ban started?
Other places have banned them
Other places have banned them except for certain things. There's other types of bags.
Carlin had it right
You apparently haven't
You apparently haven't watched his later video, where he changed his mind.
I must be getting old...
Granted, I was a child, but I remember the days before plastic bags were used at the grocery store. You'd still see them at "department" stores like K-Mart, Bradlees or Zayres, but for whatever reason, they weren't a "thing" at grocery stores.
People who didn't have cars opted for paper "shopping bags"...larger heavy-duty paper bags with reinforced handles so they could carry their groceries home on the bus, with a bike, or walking. Some people even invested in wheeled, metal shopping carts in order to schelp home more groceries than one person could comfortably carry.
People managed to get their groceries home back then, and they'll manage to do it now and in the future if Boston bans plastic bags. They may have to go to the grocery store more than once a week because they can't carry everything they want in one trip, but it'll get done. We will adapt.
So it really boggles my mind when anyone over the age of 35-40 whines and complains about not knowing how they will get their groceries home (clutches pearls) if the city bans plastic grocery bags.
I remember paper bags with no
I remember paper bags with no handles.
Plastic bags are way, way more convenient. They also generate less pollution during manufacturing and transport, which made them cheaper (the cost of a bag is mostly the energy consumption). That's why virtually all grocery stores switched to plastic.
Aug 1 Cambridge City Council. Boston City Council Aug 3, 2016
August 1 Cambridge City Council Meeting.
Paul Creedon
https://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/4w8bz5/august_1_cambridge_city_...
Boston City Council Meeting August 3, 2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GufaXIBMqRs