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West Roxbury against the world: Somebody paying to advertise alleged threat to neighborhood from bicycle conspiracy
By adamg on Tue, 10/15/2019 - 10:29pm
People in West Roxbury - and Roslindale - who get those blue ValPak envelopes filled with coupons this week got at least one "coupon" that advertises an alleged conspiracy by the "bicycle lobby" and people from outside the neighborhood to destroy West Roxbury by forcing bike lanes onto Centre Street, and down the throats of the good citizens of that leafy neighborhood.
The "coupons" do not indicate who paid for them and do not mention that the city ignored calls to do something about pedestrian problems along the windy four-lane road until a West Roxbury resident walking in a Centre Street crosswalk died after being hit by a motorist who said she was blinded by the sun - at the same intersection where another West Roxbury resident suffered a traumatic brain injury three years earlier when he was hit by a motorist who sped by another driver who had stopped to let him walk across the street.
After an emotional meeting at the West Roxbury Elks Club following Marilyn Wentworth's death, city planners began looking at a proposal to essentially narrow Centre Street to three lanes - one travel lane in each direction and a turning lane in the middle, with pedestrian islands at several intersections.
The proposal would allow for dedicated bike lanes - the street does not currently have any. At a raucous meeting at Holy Name School, some people who do not live in West Roxbury, including the owner of a Jamaica Plain bicycle shop, supported the plan. However, the bulk of bicyclists - or parents of bicyclists - who rose to support the idea gave West Roxbury addresses, and discussed how they tried to avoid Centre Street because it is so dangerous.
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Comments
I am not expecting any
I am not expecting any comments on this story until after the Democratic Presidential Debate is over tonight.
Tough Neighborhood
You know you’re in West Roxbury when the guy mugging you pulls out a butter knife.
Tough neighborhood? No, nice neighborhood
Not sure what angle you are going after but West Roxbury is a nice neighborhood. Not a lot of muggings because people are working hard, and neighbors looking out for one another (ya know, neighborhood stuff). But make no mistake, there are PLENTY of tough people from West Roxbury. No need to have a knife to be tough.
I'm sure you are a suburban transplant so you wouldn't know but keep trolling.
Neighborhoods that have
Neighborhoods that have muggings also have hard working people that look out for one anathor. They just don't live in a Ward that decides elections and gets nice things like WR.
high voter turnouts ward(s) decide electrons - yyyyep
"a ward that decides elections" - oh you mean where people vote? Yes, WR does have one of the highest voter turnouts - and thereby does help to decide elections - that's sort of how it works.
"gets nice things" - like what? This should be interesting.
Next time, when talking about muggings and West Roxbury - try to know something about either one (preferably both).
yikes.
I think you're missing the
I think you're missing the sarcasm here. Cut down on the Red Bull intake.
as oppose to what
Mattapan or Roxbury where the real tough guys are from, oops can't say that might be racist.
or like the little maggots who are beating up bikers on the southwest corridor.
Off topic
And racist.
Swrily Bird
Talk to your buddy that made the comment about using Butter Knife
Deflection
... and whataboutism.
You are responsible for what comes out of your keyboard.
Good to see
things haven't changed much around here!
.
.
The funny thing is that this
The funny thing is that this flier may encourage more pro bike lane people to show up at the next meeting to defend the proposal. I would do just that if I lived in West Roxbury!
Is that legal? I thought
Is that legal? I thought that political speech required a "paid for by" notice?
I mean, this also makes me wonder how cheep it is to make up lies and send them to people via ValPak.
It's All A Waste
I did not think anyone did anything with those but toss them directly into the trash. I'm surprised then that someone did in fact open them to discover said slimy notice.
Road Diet? Isn’t that one of
Road Diet? Isn’t that one of those hipster creep vegan things ? Ain’t nobody gonna force ME to diet especially not some freewheeling bikers who think THEY own the road !
Well,
If you've got a bike lane down your throat, some kind of diet is clearly indicated.
Centre Street is too
Centre Street is too dangerous for a bike lane. They recognize that fact, acknowledge it - yet will shove a bike lane onto it anyway so people from the suburbs can bike commute to the city. These bikers provide nothing in return to these cities and towns that bend over backwards to provide them with designated lanes. They don't pay taxes there, they don't shop there, they don't work there. Stop the insanity. Some roads shouldn't have bike lanes. Put them on the side roads if necessary but leave Main Street for the people who actually live, work and shop there.
Bravo
A pitch-perfect rendition of a clueless motorist. Top-notch satire - my hat's off to you!
The economic impacts are well documented Barb
https://www.citylab.com/solutions/2015/03/the-complete-business-case-for...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2018/11/16/cyclists-spend-40-mo...
https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2012/12/cyclists-and-pedestrians-...
https://usa.streetsblog.org/2012/03/23/why-bicyclists-are-better-custome...
But unfortunately denial of reality when presented with data seems to be a hallmark for anti-safe road zealot. Like what are you even fighting, this isn't just about bike lanes, its about road safety.
We pay taxes, we travel to other neighborhoods to shop and spend money and we work all over the city.
Some roads shouldn't have bike lanes, I agree. But something tells me you'd oppose bike lanes on side streets once the topic of removing parking comes up, so lets dispense with the idea that this is an honest argument.
Hey, Spin..
have you chatted with some of the business owners on Center St.? There is a reason why they do not wish to having parking spaces removed. Can you guess why?
Let us talk a bit about road safety. As I said to Fung's post, do you wish to have a system that works for everyone, including car drivers (because something tells me that you'd oppose anything that would help their commutes) and cyclists or are you in a take no prisoners frame of mind from reading some of your past posts?
Mind you, before you bash me as an "anti-safe road zealot", I have spent many years, in the past, riding a bike, commuting actually, into the city from the burbs. I see the value in many different forms of commuter transportation and look for solutions within a well reasoned and inclusive discussion.
Except...
You can fit a heck of a lot more bicycles (10+) in the space that would have occupied just one car. If adequate bicycle parking is provided, more than likely local businesses will see an upswing of pass-through-traffic. As many drivers quickly become frustrated when they 'cant find a parking space', and either keep circling the block, or continue on to another location. With bikes, it is far simpler.
The economical benefits of providing bicycle access are well proven elsewhere. Consider reading some of Swirly's links.
How do the Bike riders
carry their groceries home in the rain.
In bags
Just like how they carry groceries when it's not raining.
You've never seen the Dutch
You've never seen the Dutch ride a bike have you? I've seen them move couches on a bike.
Backpacks work wonders.
Backpacks work wonders.
Also, many people who ride bikes also travel by other means. When I commuted by bike I still drove to the grocery store.
Sure
I have a bike trailer. In the summer it tows a cooler and I put the groceries in there. In winter it carries two Ikea bins. Waterproof either way.
What I do
I have waterproof panniers. But it rarely rains enough around here for my stuff to be completely soaked riding a mile or so from any of the various grocery stores near me, so I don't usually bother to close them up all the way unless it's pouring. On one of my bikes I just have rear baskets, and the groceries barely get wet in the couple minutes I'm outside. If I were walking, I would have the stuff in open tote-type bags, and it would take me 15 minutes or so to get home rather than 2, so my stuff would get wetter.
I've got a rack on the side
I've got a rack on the side of my bike with a pannier. The food goes in that. I don't need a 4000lb metal rain coat.
How do you get food from the store to your car and from your car to your house when it rains?
I mean, its like anti-bike bingo with comments so far
And of course, this more about just bike lanes and I have constantly advocated for the wider range of transit options for commuters and citizens, you aren't paying enough attention.
Reducing car travel lanes and parking is a matter of convenience for motorists, sticking with the status quo is a safety issue for others. Again another reactionary talking point that pits pedestrians, cycling and other mobility advocates to fight over the crumbs left over from car infra. Sorry, car infra has been rammed down the throats of communities for decades, balancing that out while improving safety for others isn't an assault on business.
Can I guess why businesses don't want to lose free 2 hour parking? Gee I just can't imagine it being about convenience and entitlement, also its 16 out of 221 spots being removed. Perhaps market rates are in order for the high demand of parking here.
Also are we talking about parking or commutes now? Because commute times in the linked articles is shown to grow no more than 1.8 minutes along this corridor. If the concern is about traffic congestion, well then again we can institute market rate congestion pricing.
Spin I thought you were from Brighton
or Newton why do you care about the Parkway Area. Do you have a bike shop, Bikes not Bombs in JP????
Do you not get out and explore other neighborhoods?
But let me answer your question directly, why do I care about the Parkway Area?
Simple, I have empathy for the victims of road violence and car-centric road design, so any efforts to curb that in my neighborhood, other neighborhoods or other communities is well worth support. Its not just about where I live, work, ride, walk and drive, its about others too.
I do not have a bike shop, I choose to travel to different ones in different neighborhoods when I feel like exploring and stimulating local neighborhood economies, Bikes Not Bombs being one of them.
Simple question for you Red, if West Roxbury wants safe streets but not through road diets, how do they get safe streets?
First,
First, we kill all the
lawyerspedestrians and cyclists.Parking
I remember when they were redoing Mass Ave in East Arlington. My barber (who's awesome) told every customer how angry he was at the loss of spaces along. He said he feared it would put him out of business.
The project happened regardless and now years later he can't keep up with all the customers he has. Now he complains about how he never gets a rest.
I would listen to business owners but weight their views with other locals and experienced traffic engineers. People greatly exaggerate the need for parking, particularly business owners.
The City's proposal removes
The City's proposal removes 16 out of 221 parking spaces. Many of these are too close to crosswalks and removing them will improve visibility of people crossing the street. If you haven't noticed, pedestrians keep getting killed by cars here.
Oh
If you haven't noticed, my car was rated as one of the safest and I'm in a hurry so don't do anything which might possibly slow me down. Also, I don't know anyone who was killed by a car personally so it can't really be a problem.
Sincerely,
A typical Masshole driver
PS. I have an important job and/or kids so only listen to me.
"There is a reason why they
"There is a reason why they do not wish to having parking spaces removed. Can you guess why?"
Is it because they don't understand that people on bicycles also buy things?
If bike lanes are such a good thing
Then why are the ones I see on a daily basis during my commute so devoid of cyclists?
"The productivity of the system is measured by throughput"
https://usa.streetsblog.org/2016/04/01/why-bike-lanes-with-lots-of-bike-...
lol so people from far flung
lol so people from far flung suburbs will bike straight through, never stopping for coffee, stuff at CVS, using a bank, etc, because lord knows stopping your bike and hopping in for an errand is really tough...... but LOCAL people definitely drive everywhere, because there's so much parking, and it's so convenient to go very short distances in your car in the traffic of centre street, so they're stopping at every tom dick and harry's on their way to travel four blocks from home to work.....
dude, what
If only!
Oh, if only all those suburbanites would ride their bikes into the city instead of driving!
I'm not sure how I feel about all the Centre St. changes, but if a bike lane there somehow encouraged people to stop using the neighborhood as a cut-through from the suburbs to the city, I would be all for it.
Yeah, I really look forward
Yeah, I really look forward to biking everywhere, especially from December-June, when it's snowing,raining or just plain too *&)(*&)&) cold. That's six months out of the year.
Too cold? Bundle up.
Too cold? Bundle up.
I commuted by bike all through the winter of 2015. It wasn't that hard, you just wear warm clothes.
Literally no one is asking
Literally no one is asking you to get on a bike, princess.
I don't need a 4000lb jacket.
I don't need a 4000lb jacket. People ski outside in winter for fun, it's very much possible to comfortably bike year round.
“These bikers”
I drive, I bike, I walk, I take the bus. I’m a person, not a “biker.” But when I’m on Centre St., I’m usually in a car and I’m not too happy about it. The street parking spaces are a pain to use as are the four lanes of traffic because you constantly have to weave to avoid the cars that are double-parked or attempting to squeeze into a rare open space. The curb bumpers from the last redesign are a pain that force buses to stop in the travel lanes. Nothing is good for bicyclists who have to share a narrow car lane with all the weavers, parkers, and buses.
I much prefer the off-street parking and there should be more of it. As a driver, I’d like to see the dedicated turn lanes and a lot less street parking. Going from 4 lanes to 2 (plus a turn lane) would be a much smoother ride, like Belgrade Ave. As for bikes, look around you in other neighborhoods. JP, Allston, even Dorchester and Roslindale are a lot more bike-friendly than WR, and the result is a lot more cycling, safer roads for everyone, busier bus routes, and businesses doing just fine.
Centre street was not created to have 4 lanes
It was 2 driving lanes and 2 street car lanes. Those street cars allowed people to move quickly through WRox without a car. Back then WRox had a higher population but less cars. The street has devolved into a safety hazard. These changes serve local residents. The parking spaces that will be removed are too close to the intersections to be safe even in the current configuration.
You mean 6 lanes....don't
You mean 6 lanes....don't forget about the free for life parking on both sides of the street that car owners feel entitled to. And yes, I am a car owner.
So the road Diet 7 Lanes
2 Parking lanes for business owners and customers that help our vibrant economy
2 Driving Lanes
1 Turn Left Lane
2 Bike lanes for outsiders driving through that add NOTHING to the Parkway Area's economy
You seem to have a boner for
You seem to have a boner for "OUTSIDERS." Let's just get this out there...WR isn't a destination spot. It has banks, pizza shops and nail salons. It closes up at 8pm. The "outsiders" you're worried about aren't coming.
WR has always been known to not like outsiders...I'll just leave that there.
After hours
The 7-Eleven is open 24 hours a day. Which is more than I can say for 99% of the rest of Boston.
Oh you said the special economy word
Funny thing about that and bike lanes:
https://www.citylab.com/solutions/2015/03/the-complete-business-case-for...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2018/11/16/cyclists-spend-40-mo...
https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2012/12/cyclists-and-pedestrians-...
https://usa.streetsblog.org/2012/03/23/why-bicyclists-are-better-custome...
I almost would not care
If they cut down the lanes and put in the turn lanes. The thing that bothers me is the Bike Lanes. what does that have to do with safety??? I mean it's just somehtiing else you have to look out for. This is going nowhere,
It's safety for people that
It's safety for people that are trying to get off the road to help reduce congestion for people that feel they can't live without their car. Car owners aren't the end all be all. It's just that we are so used to getting everything we want...for some it's hard to accept that times are a changing.
We should thank the people that want to bike, walk, skate, or take the T to work.
So would it be alright if
I use my Horse and Buggy to commute, or just my horse the buggy might congest the road.
Skate?? Rollerblades and Skateboards, what about scooters and electric scooters
Keep sticking your head in the sand Red
Countless links have been shared with you about the safety benefits of bike lanes that are not exclusive to those riding bikes.
Also if looking out for bikes is such a burden on you, please consider turning in your license because you shouldn't be driving.
Math lesson
Which is bigger:
10,000 or 5?
300 or 1/2?
Motor vehicle crashes kill around 30,000 people per year in the US and 1/3 are pedestrians. Cycle crashes with pedestrians? About 5 per year.
Somewhere around 300 pedestrians per year in MA are killed by motorists. I'm being generous with the 1/2 for the local toll for cyclists - it has been a while in Boston, and it runs about 2-3 a year in NYC.
And how many
Of those deaths are caused by murderous drivers(c)Kinopio&Co and not by people’s own stupidity? You know, things like dashing out into traffic without looking, running red lights, blowing past large trucks on the right at a busy intersection, etc.
And I readily admit there are idiot drivers out there, but maybe, just maybe, it makes sense to really crack down on that small subset instead of making every driver’s life miserable? Because you see, a speeding drunkard will run you down on a six lane busy street or a one and a half car lane and ten bike lane utopian superhighway, makes no difference to him.
#victimblaming #whataboutism
#victimblaming
#whataboutism
Roads are for people, not
Roads are for people, not cars. If people want to gallop down Centre St. on a horse, its legal, so be my guest. Just stop at the lights.
They say the road diet plan
is all about safety especially because the woman was hit and killed. The reason the woman was hit was because of solar glare. Making the road one lane each way would not have helped in that situation. I saw a woman and her daughter almost get hit by a car in Brookline crossing a two lane road. The traffic on the other side was bumper to bumper and stopped. They walked into a crosswalk between two of those cars and a driver in front of me had to slam on his brakes because he didn't see them until they came into our lane from between the cars. I'll admit that I often don't see pedestrians crossing Centre until I'm already going through the crosswalk. The only real way to protect pedestrians is with flashing crossing lights which I hope they put in whether the road diet goes through or not.
Almost there, you're getting close
So, visibility is bad and traffic goes too fast through there to be able to stop in time for pedestrians? Hmm, sounds like maybe something could be done to, I don't know, slow down cars and ensure that they're traveling a safe speed even if there's glare or other visibility issues. Now, what are some effective measures that are known to cause drivers to slow down, even more than just installing more signs...
And the award for most snarky goes to...
Good Lord, if you are trying to get people on your side, try to dial back the enlightened, elitist, anti-car snarkiness.
Road diet. Haha.
Sorry for not coddling dangerous drivers I guess?
The OP literally mentioned that they regularly blow through crosswalks on Centre with people in them because "they didn't see them" but yeah sure a snarky tone is the real problem here, some great priorities for sure
Ok, fung..
I will assume that you live in West Roxbury and/or frequent the area quite often. No?
So with that assumption in mind, let us look at your assumptions.
1. Visibility is bad and traffic goes too fast, to stop in time for pedestrians.
If you frequent the area, you know that the traffic moves so slowly there, at times, because of the congestion. In fact, unless you are traveling through in the early morning hours, the street is usually slow going.
Aside from this unfortunate accident, which looks like it was due to solar glare, most traffic stops for pedestrians or we would have more dead bodies.
Thus,
2. Slowing down traffic
This is the newest bike zealot talking point. Hey, lets slow down the cars. Ok, we are at, what 25mph in the city now? And yet this woman was hit. Slowing down traffic is not going to do anything to stop congestion, which makes more frustrated drivers, which does not make commuting better for anyone, bike or car.
3. Solutions?
We have a road network that no longer can support the amount of traffic (and this is due to a myriad of reasons). We have a generally crappy and not convenient public transportation system. Making traffic move slower is not going to solve these problems.
If you frequent the area, you
No, traffic moves super fast, it's just a cycle of SPEED-STOP-SPEED-STOP, combined with people double parking, clogging up traffic making left hand turns, etc, which then encourages people to switch lanes back and forth during their SPEED phase.
removing lights but forcing people to not drive as fast will be a wash for car drivers but will allow them to drive in a way that's safer for everyone else.
This entire comment is making
This entire comment is making me wonder if you ever actually drive on Centre St.
1) No one follows the 25 mph speed limit. I try to and what usually happens is I get tailgated, then sped around in either the right or left lane.
2) More than once I've stopped to let someone cross the street and had the person in the other lane blow right through the crosswalk. More than once I've been crossing a crosswalk on Centre. St and had a car speed past me after a car in one lane had stopped for me. Saying "most traffic stops for pedestrians" is like saying "most cars don't get into accidents, so kids don't need car seats." You're saying a dead body every three years or so doesn't matter.
And your solution is...do nothing? Great, super helpful.
How pedestrians get hit on Centre Street
More than once I've stopped to let someone cross the street and had the person in the other lane blow right through the crosswalk.
This.
Yes, the poor woman in February was hit by a woman allegedly blinded by solar glare, but I don't know what they're teaching in driver's ed these days, but I learned that if you can't see because the sun's in your eyes, you slow the hell down.
In any case, the man who had his head smashed into the pavement three years earlier at the same exact intersection, who has also spoken at community meetings, so it's not like it's some big secret, was hit because of a driver who didn't bother to wonder why another driver had stopped at that intersection.
Public Service Announcement
I want to be clear that I am not victim blaming but am sharing a piece of safety advice that might help prevent others from getting into an accident or hurt.
When the sun is low, whether you are driving a car, on a motorcycle, bicycle or walking, keep in your mind that "Your shadow points to the people who can't see you."
When you are looking towards the person who can't see you your vision is crystal clear because the sun is behind you so it's easy to assume that they can see you just as well which can be a devastating mistake.
What about Count Dracula
Vampires have no shadows or reflections in a mirror.
Also a Flame has not shadow.
A person who cast no shadow has no soul
Only cross the street a night
Tip stay off you cell phone and stop drinking a Beverages when crossing the street and look
both ways like you mother told you. That's all out the window if it is a Bike bearing down on you because they don't stop anyway.
This is hysterical
Thanks for the laugh. (1) except for morning / evening rush when there’s congestion, drivers race from light to light. There’s no congestion or slow moving traffic most of the day. I walk Centre Street most days. (2) very few people keep it to 25. I do and have tailgaters and honkers behind me all the time. You pretty much have to be ready to get into it with people if you drive 25. And “most traffic stops for pedestrians” is gold. Have you ever crossed on foot? I do every day and typically 2-5 cars pass before someone stops. Then you deal with drivers going around the car that stopped.
To get cars to stop you need to assert yourself and show them your walking in front of them. Which as a large person that’s able to move quickly I can do. But I always see older folks or kids standing two steps into the crosswalk watching a stream of cars go by. Even when drovers notice people they often don’t want to slow down.
A slower design will actually slow speed and get people on foot the attention to cross safely.
Walk down to the Traffic Light
Press the button and wait for the signal to cross. There is certainly enough Traffic lihgts on Centre street. 9 or 10 forget the Pedestrian crossing,
So now pedestrians and or
So now pedestrians and or bikers are not allowed to use the crosswalks with no signals? Can you admit that you like to be contrary just to be contrary?
Okay, Whyaduck
Present evidence that rebuts or at least nuances the data supplied in the references that Spin presented, as well as by the people redesigning the traffic control scheme in the area.
In other words, your vitriolic talking points gibberish isn't a convincing counter argument - its all just emotional tautology. Argue the actual issues with data, facts, and research, please.
How many people have died or injured on Centre street
Is it much more than any other area of the city. I think not. Just outside Bike groups
Go ride in the Arbs, Jamaica Pond or even better Local Cemeteries. Plenty of room. No need to commute to work on a bike, you get into work all sweaty, body odor?? What's the point.
Run to work and take a shower. Better exercise.
how many ?
Too many...
BTW i have counted since May, i personally have seen a car not stop for a pedestrian in the crosswalk 7 times. Almost always the pedestrian needs to stop or go back. This is not including the right turn on red jerk turning from corey to Centre who weaved through pedestrians a few weeks ago
Wow 7 Times in 5 months
That might be me. I wonder how many Bikes have gone right through the lights probaly 700 times.
Happens to me every time I
Happens to me every time I walk Centre to do my errands, walk my dog, go get a coffee, go to eat. So that many times a week. I am just one person and I am not the only one it happens to...do the math.
I feel badly for you...you seem so angry about everything.
Not a bad idea but
Great places to ride - now, how do you propose someone who lives in West Roxbury gets to Jamaica Pond or the Arboretum via bicycle if they're not supposed to ride anywhere else?
are you kidding?!?
by car of course. just like the folks that drive to Millennium Park to walk - because our sidewalks and streets are not safe for pedestrians.
Why don't you limit your driving to interstates?
Those are the only roads that were actually made for cars.
The rest of the roads were definitely not made for cars, so you shouldn't drive there.
/your logic
Shorter redbaron
"I, personally, have not been hit and killed by a car on Centre St., therefore there is no problem with its traffic pattern."
Seriously?
I walk and cross Center St at least 4-5 times a week. This is the quote that I like from your response
"Aside from this unfortunate accident, which looks like it was due to solar glare, most traffic stops for pedestrians or we would have more dead bodies."
Last night I almost got hit crossing Center St from the 7-11 to the Porter Cafe. If you frequent the area you know that the Police station is the building next to the 7-11. Crossing last night already in the cross walk and here comes Mr Ford Explorer bombing around the Rotary and exiting on to Center Street and looked right at me and sped along off towards Rochies all the while having the Police Station on his left. No regard for any one or anything.
If most traffic stops for you then you sir are the luckiest man in WR. We don't have more deaths because pedestrians are aware of the fact that most people DO NOT STOP when there are people crossing.
On top of that the rotary at Holy Name is a death trap. I cannot count how many times I have almost been hit because cars coming off the rotary are speeding and can't (won't) stop
wow stop driving please
I learned something interesting last week
As part of this plan, they are going to remove signals at a few intersections. Those signals help people cross the street more safely. Removing the signals would do nothing to prevent the death that happened earlier in the year.
I think the bike lanes are a good idea, but this plan does not help pedestrians. It is a plan driven by ideology and opposed by the opposite number.
Really?
http://www.northeastern.edu/peter.furth/road-diet-for-centre-street-west...
Saving lives is an idealogy? This research and plan has been linked and discussed repeatedly on Uhub, but you just found a missing signal? Do you pay attention to anything you read? This is how you repeatedly offend so many people. Random perverse hot takes to gather attention.
There are two ideologies at work here
If you concede that the group that made this flyer has an ideological bent, the other side must have one too.
By the way, reread my comment and ask yourself what my opinion on this proposal is. It's not too hard to figure out what I wrote. But to summarize, there may be some problems with the plan. The plan is supposed to help pedestrians, but some elements might not help pedestrians in the end. Those problems are probably correctable. Others have offered a defense of the plan, but you decided to take a potshot, because that is who you are and what you do. That is why you repeatedly offend so many people.
Projection
your comment was a random hot take potshot that demonstrates poor understanding of the issue.
Are you comparing the people that made the flyer with Dr. Furth? Are you claiming there opinions about the configuration of Centre have equal foundation in research and design? Because that is dishonest.
So what idealogy are you talking about? Do you have any idea why the road diet is proposed? hint: I linked it again.
Trying reading your own comments and responses. just repeating what I wrote is silly.
tl/dr
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thank you
thank you
Brilliant
(She’s a bit obsessed with me.)
off topic, but then you don't
off topic, but then you don't understand the topic so...
Narrator: No, she isn't.
Narrator: No, she isn't.
Except...
You def heard the news last week, but you didn't seem to learn anything except the news.
Removing additional intersections, especially aging signals, is likely more of an attempt to allow an easier flow of traffic instead of uncoordinated signals that create more traffic; and consequentially, safety concerns as drivers may decide to run more red lights to avoid waiting at the signal for another cycle. It has been shown that decreasing the crossing distance (with sidewalk bump outs) and implementing RRFBs is an effective method to allow pedestrians to safely cross the roadway, as well as increasing driver compliance.
a+++++++ this is a useful and
a+++++++ this is a useful and informative post
Bruh
this isn't eBay
It will be safe to cross
The signals were added because it’s never safe to cross four lanes. With one lane each way people can cross safely with a crosswalk and not a light. The traffic study (if you believe in research done by experts) showed those intersections don’t have enough traffic turning onto Centre to require a stoplight. Once the road is three lanes people only need to get one driver’s attention at a time to cross. And drivers will have less road to watch and more attention for walkers. The major benefit here is two less stops when you’re driving. Saves time.
Excuse me?
No, that's not at all the reason the woman was hit. The woman was hit because a driver, knowing full well that solar glare was interfering with the driver's ability to see, decided not to do what any responsible person would do and bring the vehicle to a stop, but instead decided to continue piloting 4,000 lbs of steel blindly into a crowded stretch of road.
I don't normally wade into these bike v car love fests, but your attempt to excuse recklessly irresponsible driving that led to a human fatality by blaming it on the sun offends me.
Centre St is very treacherous for crossing
A family friend got hit crossing at the library. During the day. She was hit so hard that she landed on the windshield of the car.
Shows how despirate ValPak is
Doonesbury has been running old repeat comics where Mike is unable to find a decent job so he stoops to designing handbills for strip clubs. Similar thing here.
West Roxbury....where they'll
West Roxbury....where they'll yell at you to "move to the suburbs if you don't like the city" but yet roll up their sidewalks at 8pm.
North of Boston
A similar crowd whines about parking being a disability issue (which it is), then freaks out when anyone suggests that maybe street parking should therefore be reserved for people with disabilities and everyone else use the ample parking in the lot behind the businesses and at City Hall instead (and walk).
Funny, no mention of the overwhelming opposition.
Funny, no mention of the overwhelming resident and business owner opposition from the meeting mentioned in this post. Spin much? No bike pun intended.
Spin?
Oh, please. Yes, there are people making sincere arguments against the proposal. But we're not talking about them here - the subject here is angry fantasists with delusions of grandeur making up conspiracies by an alleged Big Bicycle and a cabal of jealous people who can't afford to live in God's Own Country to ruthlessly destroy an entire neighborhood. And now they've gone beyond just harrumphing at community meetings - and denying that anybody who lives there could possibly disagree with them - to putting out actual money to promote their fantasy.
I'm honestly wondering if
I'm honestly wondering if this is from the same person who put bumper stickers all over W.Rox. saying you shouldn't shop at stores that don't wish you a Merry Christmas. Same energy.
no
But I wonder if the local sales rep for Valpak is trying to generate interest from it's customers.
majority of people oppose - "we're not talking about them here"
So the majority of people oppose the plan (which is the reason for the insert) but - "we're not talking about them here".....ggggotcha.
"And now they've gone beyond just harrumphing at community meetings"...So if people strongly oppose something and have legitimate concerns they are "harrumphing" - cool, cool.
Seems pretty objective to me.
Look, the insert is over the top - I agree on that. But it is the result of the fact the the overwhelming majority of people in West Roxbury are against this plan.
Says who?
I'm unaware of any actual polling on the issue.
Look, the insert is over the top - I agree on that.
So you agree with my reasoning for why I wrote the post the way I did. Thanks.
nope
I'm sure you were at the meeting - and know of the opposition.
I said I agree that the insert is over the top - I think the overwhelming opposition to the plan is a real thing, and opposing opinions should not be dismissed as nimby-ism or "harrumphing" as you put it.
Overwhelming?
I certainly haven’t been overwhelmed by the cars-over-everything people.
Interesting word choice
I can’t get enough of these folks who think all of West Roxbury is represented by the dozen people they talk to.
At the holy name meeting 30+ spoke in favor and five against. Most identified themselves as residents.
The anti-road diet candidate, Marty Keough, lost the preliminary election to unknown candidates that support the road diet. He got less than 12% in WR’s ward.
There are people ranting on Facebook, almost entirely echoing disproved alarmist nonsense about the impact of road diets. Signing a petition that isn’t even against the proposal, but against made up impacts like slower emergency response (not only wrong but opposite).
Hundreds of people signed a petition (with local addresses) supporting the actual proposal.
But keep saying everyone is against it.
Rumor is that the mayor is
Rumor is that the mayor is backing away from this Centre St plan. If you're a resident who wants this plan to happen, time to flood the emails listed on that insert and let them know you want the road diet with protected bike lanes. The loud NIMBYs are the minority per usual but they have the mayor's ear allegedly, mostly due to campaign donations.
Really, because I heard a
Really, because I heard a rumor that the Mayor wants cars to stop killing people and therefore supports it. You name your source, I'll name mine, but I bet mine works in City Hall and yours doesn't.
I know exactly who paid for this insert
Adam Gaffin.
Just look at the web views and comments on this post. It's a gold mine!
Not out of his own pocket, though
He's going to do a chargeback to Soros.
Well, Congratulations Whatever Group Paid for This
I'd signed the petition and told my city councilor, but now you've got this life-long WR resident sending an email to everyone on that *stupid* flyer about how I support the Road Diet. Well done!
speed kills
The woman was hit because of speed, ignoring the other car stopped for a crosswalk and solar glare.
The bike lanes have become a convenient scapegoat for everyone who does not want change.
Driving Centre twice a day, I can tell you that no one has slowed down. People still routinely don’t stop for people in crosswalks and they make illegal u turns and run red lights.
Slowing the traffic by creating tow travel lanes and a turn lane is the best solution. Sorry I will gladly give up a few minutes of my daily commute to make it safer for everyone.
PS the letter in the Bulletin two weeks ago sounded a lot like this flyer.
Just did the same
Not only because I am in favor of the road diet and bike lanes but if this does get implemented it will make that Redbaron guy's head explode and that can't be a bad thing.
who did it?
I sure don't know, but look for whoever spells it "neighboorhood"
How many people
Actually commute by bike from West Roxbury? It’s most likely not even in triple digits, and it makes absolutely no sense to spend tens of millions of taxpayer dollars and screw over tens of thousands of car commuters just to placate a couple dozen rabid frothy-mouthed bike zealots.
Winner winner chicken dinner.
Winner winner chicken dinner...another "I got mine screw the rest of you."
Apparently its 44 per day
Thats on Weld Street west of Centre Street.
https://www.boston.gov/departments/boston-bikes/bike-data/2017-boston-bi...
But of course this isn't just about biking, its also about dangerous road design and curtailing as much road violence as possible. Makes plenty of sense to spend money on that.
Also pretty clear that its not tens of thousands but about 3,446 motorists per day. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You have to be Kidding 44 Bike Trips!!!!!!!!!
44 Bike trips 1.3%, of the vehicles and we suppose change the whole Business district. all of the Heavy routes were in town probably college kids short bike rides.
How do you feel about congestion pricing/market rate parking?
After all, you just told me its a heavy route. Be it one lane or four lanes, induced demand is a thing and if you build it they will come. Might as well make em pay a premium for it.
Oh and we can do away with the freebie 2 hour car storage, gotta price that and let the free market reign amirite?
Remember, this isn't just about bikes but dealing with dangerous road violence caused by motorists and poorly design streets.
I'm assuming you have some data for this chief?
It's College kids, Longwood Medical Area
and people who live in the Back Bay, South end, How many people are coming in from outside of JP even. Minimal. Stop wasting our time. NO BIKE LANES. Improve traffic lights,
better crosswalks, slow down traffic. Fine but NO BIKE LANES. out of the question
Wrong
It’s me. I take my bike up to the business on Center St on a regular basis. Bike to get a burrito? Yes please. Bike to get my haircut? Yes please. Bike to Rochies? Yes (I put the bags in the crate on the back). You get the idea. I try my hardest to stay off of Center St in the car. It sucks.
To me the road diet comes down to this. Will it be safer for everyone ? If you believe the research (and I do) then yes it will be. Will it cost me a few minutes when I drive on Center Street ? Yes. Oh well.
Sure thing skip!
We, the 4000 something drivers, will be delighted to pay for those two travel lanes as soon as the 44 of you clowns pay for the other two travel lanes you want converted into your precioussssss bike lanessssss. 50/50 split since you want half of the available space all to yourself, sounds fair?
Maybe
You can also contribute to a fund for the people you kill.
You sure you wanna make that deal?
Remember how roads are funded before you go making arguments like that.
https://frontiergroup.org/media/fg/true-costs-driving
Self-owns are so delicious. Next!
Ah yes
It’s all about the gas tax. Excise tax, license, registration, inspection and sales tax do not exist, they’re all just a product of the overactive cager imagination.
You’re paying over $1100/year for your car fees?
Not sure what state you’re in, since that’s way more than I’m paying for my MA registration, inspection, license, etc. Have you considered maybe switching to a bicycle? They’re a lot cheaper!
Most of those other fees don
Most of those other fees don't directly fund roads.
License and registration fees pay largely to run the RMV.
Inspection fees don't really raise any money at all. Stations usually lose money on them.
Sales tax pays for a ton of things. Roads are but one tiny portion of it.
No matter how you slice and dice it, user fees don't come anywhere close to funding our roads, and that gap in funding is made up through general revenue (e.g. sales tax) that is paid by everyone, regardless of whether they own a car.
Also, as has been pointed out umpteen million times, the majority of cyclists also own cars, and thus pay all those taxes and fees. It's possible to use different modes of transportation for different trips. It doesn't have to be zero-sum.
You didn't read the article
Spin you are done 44 Trips
Game over go out and get a used car and a Stationary Bike and stop wasting our time. we have a businesses and a community to run.
Oh you said businesses again?
Funny thing about that and bike lanes:
https://www.citylab.com/solutions/2015/03/the-complete-business-case-for...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2018/11/16/cyclists-spend-40-mo...
https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2012/12/cyclists-and-pedestrians-...
https://usa.streetsblog.org/2012/03/23/why-bicyclists-are-better-custome...
What about the need to tackling the road violence in this area? No concerns there, stick with the status quo?
Road violence?
You mean all those entitled jeggins-wearing assholes swearing at pedestrians and smashing car mirrors with their ulocks? You’re right, something definitely needs to be done about it.
Hey Adam
Looks like we got another "new member" from that same batch of socks.
Citations please
Adam's already got links about the current road violence, do you have anything backing up your claims?
https://www.boston.gov/sites/default/files/imce-uploads/2019-06/19-06-20...
Also some of us wear cut off jeans when we ride, jeez.
1.3% of People Travel by Bike in West Roxbury
1.3% I bet they are not even commuting.
So
Just a couple dozen as expected. Talk about being entitled...
Yeah advocating for safer streets
What an entitled view to have.
Want safer streets?
Invest in better public transportation instead of wasting countless millions on a few entitled assholes.
Swearing?
But above you were clutching pearls about cyclists swearing, different standard here?
Hey when you've got no argument to make, attack the messenger amirite lol
Fake troll bait
Fake troll bait
¿Porque no los dos?
n/t
Grandpa you are right
That would be a good question how many bike trips are there per day on Centre St.
I wonder why or if there has been a study. Northeastern could get some student ( I think the same one who did the Traffic study) And have him count, he could probably use his hands on how many Bikes go down Centre Street. I guess that is the question is the Road Diet for safety or these outside Bike groups. We don't need Bike Lanes, more lights? less Car lanes? But definitely NOT BIKE LANES.
The right hand
Complements the left hand.
How do you both type with socks on your hands?
The main purpose of the road
The main purpose of the road diet is to make it safer for pedestrians to cross the street. Fewer lanes to cross does that. It also happens to free up space that can be used for bike lanes.
In addition, it's usually not useful to gauge how many people would bike on a street after it has bike lanes based on the numbers before it has bike lanes. It's a little bit like trying to gauge how many people would use a new bridge based on how many people swim across the river today. People who bike avoid streets that are unsafe or uncomfortable. Making it safer and more comfortable for bicycling will be a huge boon to the local businesses. Studies show that people who bike spend more money at local businesses and visit more often than people who drive.
1.3% Travel by bike in West Roxbury
No need for change, outside Bike Lobby ruining the city. Marty Walsh would never agree to this change.
Christ, you're an idiot.
Christ, you're an idiot.
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