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Citizen complaint of the day: Reckless gadabouts on delivery scooters in the Back Bay
By adamg on Tue, 09/19/2023 - 8:59pm
A perturbed citizen files a 311 complaint about the scooter situation in the Back Bay:
My wife and I have been residents of the Back Bay for 20 years. Lately, we have on every occasion, when we have been walking about in the city, seen mostly young men, on unlicensed delivery scooters. They frequently drive recklessly on the sidewalk and streets, they do not obey traffic signals and I have witnessed several near misses with pedestrians and other vehicles. Since most of these vehicles do not have license plates, I assume they are not registered or insured. Some drivers appear to be too young to even have a driver’s license. Many also do not wear helmets Many of our friends have also told us that they too have witnessed this and do not understand why this concerning behavior has not been addressed. Why is the City (Police) allowing this dangerous behavior? On Boylston Street at Copley Square, directly across from the CVS, at anytime day or night, you will find many them of them congregating, just waiting to receive their next delivery assignment. I implore you to stop this before some innocent pedestrian or one of the young drivers is killed.
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Comments
License plates optional
After making a big deal about scooters in the city a few years ago, there is essentially no BPD enforcement of unlicensed scooters at this point. Every scooter I see in the city these days has no license plate and is not registered. Not sure what BPD does all day, but it's certainly not anything to do with improving quality of life for the city's residents.
Plates not required?
Unless mistaken, scooters and similar vehicles under a specific engine size are not required to be registered and have a plate. That is governed at the state level BTW. So if there is no law, then there is nothing for the police to do. Those electric scooters are specifically exempt.
49cc engine
May not still be current, but when I had a gas moped 7+ years ago, as long as the engine was 49cc or less, it was subject to a “moped registration”, which was $40 every two years, no insurance requirement and the “plate” consisted of the little sticker they have motorists put on their car plates to show their registration is renewed for the current year.
Over 50cc, it was a “motorcycle” and needed plates and insurance.
not just the size
Any cycle that can go over 30 miles per hour must be registered. Obviously, the size thing is outdated, because modern engines are more efficient.
I really think that adults that use scooters as main form of transportation should be targeted for ebike subsidies. Most adults that get around on a gas scooter or dirt bike, can't afford even a full size motorcycle. These engines actually pollute a lot for the size and compare to pollution of a modern car. It is unfortunate that all of the electric vehicle tax breaks target people rich enough to buy a car. UL compliant ebikes are at least 1K.
Excellent points …
… about subsidies for ebikes. Should be for escooters too. Anything that replaces a gas burning motor on the roads.
which kind of escooter?
Do you mean the stand up kind? Honestly as a cyclist they seem really unsafe to me. the fast ones are basically surf boards in the street. I am really surprised there haven't been more deaths.
Standup ones very safe
Escooters are very safe to ride.
In the event of a crash, you are already standing and your feet are only a few inches off the ground. It's a lot easier to ditch the scooter and land on your feet compared to a bicycle, with a bike you run the risk of falling, getting tangled in the bike, getting injured by the bike and its gears...
Small standup escooters have almost no risk of entanglement, fewer sharp parts, and the upright upper body is more visible to cars, and it also gives the escooter rider a much better vantage point to see pedestrians and cars compared to a bike. I've tried out every micro mobility option available and the scooter is by far the most convenient and safest feeling of them all.
The main thing you really need to watch out for are nasty Boston potholes which can really trounce the tiny low profile wheels of an escooter.
Good to know.
Thanks.
etrike
https://fatbearscooters.com/products/fatbear-scooter-es395-2-0-20-ah-bat...
Wonder if something like this is street legal.
Could you use it in a bike lane?
Yes
Considering the fact that you can use a full-fledged motorcycle in bike lanes under Massachusetts law (not that I think that's a good idea) then yes, I'm pretty sure you can use the trike too.
You can only use a motor
You can only use a motor vehicle that has a top speed of 30 in a bike lane, and that pretty much rules out actual motor cycles.
Also
No helmet laws. I seen most scooter riders not wearing a helmet, I thought that was still a law.
*There is essentially no BPD enforcement at all
n/t
Yup
Been wishing the state would change the moped law which allows for this. Scooters and Mopeds aren't required to have plates if they do not exceed some mph or something like that.
But more and more of these are on the road now, and less and less have plates. And more and more people are using these to be total assholes because they aren't plated (nor can be tracked).
I dont have issues with delivery drivers in my neighborhood, but this year I've seen an uptick of people driving these in mine. Ignoring traffic rules, going up my one way street the wrong way, weaving in and out of traffic, and my biggest complaint.. beyond loud mufflers (that are mods to make them this way).
And then of course the quasi-mini bike / scooter. (its hard to tell these days which are really off-road motor bikes that have been modded or which are scooters). And these all go faster than 40mph b/c its amazing how fast they zoom away when they don't obey traffic laws.
In days gone by the moped law was meant for mopeds, which weren't much faster or powerful as an eBike. A moped back then was a bike with a gas motor to *assist* with using. Now people interpret this as anything that isn't a full size motorcycle and 'dirt bike'.
Its time to update this law to require these to be plated. No one drives a true "moped" anymore (I haven't seen one that fits the original definition since the 1990s)
Yeah amending the laws would be good, they're so out of date
But its meaningless if BPD continues to ignore enforcement.
Add e-bikes to the list too
Those people are always flying around at high rates of speed.
Yeah cybah touched on that
And I'm in total agreement!
We should put speed governors on all motorized vehicles on the road, be it EV or ICE. So many road operators are always flying around at high rates of speed.
Can I count you in the camp supporting speed limiting efforts to better road safety?
1000%
Rare, but we’re in agreement.
"Dillon, you son of a..."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txuWGoZF3ew
"those people"
Those people are always those people are never yahda yahda yahda.
Point missed?
I believe it was noted that there are now laws. If there are no laws to enforce, BPD is powerless. We may not like that, but that is how the system works.
For what some report as "reckless behavior" the police would need to personally witness it, or have a civilian willing to step up and make a citizen complaint.
With a citizen complaint that person needs to be willing to follow through in the courts as the complainant as opposed to the police in some instances, especially if they are the witness to the alleged infraction (not seen by police). Most people do not. That is why so many people report police issues on 311 (city services). They are unwilling to step up or think reporting to 311 lessens the enforcement response. Citizens don't get to make that determination, and using 311 for this pretty much sends the report to the wrong place.
Many years ago.....
I had a Honda Express, which was similar to a moped but had no pedals. I lived in Boston but never got pulled over there but did in Brookline all the time. I used it to commute to my job in Newton. It was slow, couldn't go over 25 and it was quiet. Brookline PD informed me several times since it could not be pedaled it needed to have a plate and inspection sticker but since I did have a motorcycle license and helmet they always let me go. I'm betting this is the law still on the books.
The new bike messengers
These menaces sound like the 2023 version of those nuisance daredevil bike messengers from the 1990s. I was nearly clipped by them several times as they disobeyed all traffic laws, and they hurled abuse at me to boot. They also had a gathering place. Winthrop Square in the financial district. They were an unsavory lot.
Just be glad they and the new version…
…. aren’t driving cars.
I knew a bike messenger back then he was a safe and courteous cyclist. Not all were “unsavory “. Don’t lump them all together.
Yeah, but ALL of them...
...were in local bands. :-) :-)
Post office square or bust
Post office square or bust
Not like they are causing tens of deaths.
They caused only one death as far as I know. The man who was walking near City Hall, was hit by a bike messenger, causing a fatal heart attack.
Doesn't there need to be a greater number of deaths before any legal action? What is 1 or 2 deaths per year, or a few mailings when compared to the urgency of one lawyer sending to another lawyer some papers that need signatures, post haste?
AEC drawings too
Just anecdotal but before the construction cloud options, couriers were the way to get drawings out to contractors/job sites.
Now do cars!
How many die by car?
The cyclist messengers still congregate
They just moved squares because of the Winthrop Center construction, now they meet in the Angell memorial side of Post Office square.
People order takeout delivery, pay little to …
… nothing for it. Expect it PRONTO.
Then stamp their feet and whine that the delivery people make too much noise and go too fast trying to get their food to them while it’s still hot.
You can’t have it both ways, Mr Wealthy Enough to Live in the Back Bay.
The person complaining isn't
The person complaining isn't necessarily ordering anything. And the fact that you are jealous of him should not come into it.
These delivery drivers do drive on the sidewalks, and fast,all the time.
And no, I don't live in Back Bay . I also almost never order delivery. And I don't complain if my delivery takes a while.
"Jealous"
"Jealous" is doing a lot of work here, son.
“ I also almost never order
“ I also almost never order delivery. And I don't complain if my delivery takes a while.”
Uh-huh.
In a strange turn of events...
The rich are forced to eat themselvs.
I mean, the original
I mean, the original complainer seems to be very consistent - there is dangerous driving involved in these, it could cause issues for both pedestrians and the drivers themselves. The Complainer is not also asking the city to somehow make food delivery even faster and cheaper at the same time. I sympathize these guys are under competing expectations but those expectations are coming from different groups of people so the accusation of wanting it both ways is a little disingenuous.
Honestly at some point the Gov is gonna have to step in and regulate these services. The race to the bottom (for safety, for worker compensation, for decency among customers) is real in this late capitalism hellscape.
Bikes think they are
Bikes think they are pedestrians and scooters think they are Bikes. We need dedicated scooter lanes.
How about
Getting rid of all the cars.
Out of control
They’re constantly running through traffic signals, riding on the sidewalk and 100% agree that they are definitely not insured. You know it’s just a matter of time, they’ll run a red light, get clipped by a car traveling legally through an intersection and turn around and sue the properly insured driver. I don’t think I have seen one of these scooter menaces ever obey a single traffic signal.
LOL
I like how you think someone barely making a living as a delivery driver on a scooter is going to sue anyone.
How do you think
personal injury law works? Those firms all work on contingency, not on a pay by the hour basis. And there’s a reason they advertise all the time — gotta keep the clients coming in.
Tell me you don’t know how
Personal injury lawyers work, without telling me.
Right?
They advertise on MBTA busses and on local tv. They’ll tell the uninsured, if we don’t win, we don’t get paid, but when they do get a judgment, they take the first 33.3% and all the expenses they can prove they laid out to “win your case”.
Tell me you don't know the word "subrogation"
Tell me you don't know the word "subrogation" without telling me.
You, operating legally, driving your properly registered and insured car, are involved in a crash with a delivery scooter driver speeding the wrong way up a one way street.
A local hospital provides care, to the tune of $250K. Either the scooter driver has health insurance, in which case the driver's health insurance company sues you, or he doesn't, in which case the hospital sues you.
So now you're up against the legal department of a multibillion dollar company (insurer or hospital).
Court finds that the scooter driver was 95% at fault and you were 5% at fault, because maybe you could have seen him coming and stopped sooner. The doctrine of joint and several liability and the deep pockets doctrine, means that the hospital or insurer can now try to collect the entire sum from you, and leave it up to you to recover the 95% from the scooter driver. They might or might not win on that one, but they're a multibillion dollar company with a huge legal department on payroll, and you're paying your lawyer by the minute. Either way, it's gonna leave a mark.
Wouldn't your insurance
Wouldn't your insurance company pay your legal bills? Their lawyer might not be as good as the hospital's lawyer, but at least they exist.
You're absolutely right
But, as I say every time lawsuit related issues come up on uHub, if we had a functioning health care system and a functioning social safety net in this country, that kind of thing would not happen.
Nobody in Europe is suing someone after an accident that's 95% the injured person's fault, because in Europe nobody has a 250k hospital bill after an accident.
People in the US sue even when the defendant is obviously, clearly, ridiculously not at fault because nobody, when faced with bankruptcy and homelessness, is going to take a moral high ground of "oh well it's actually mostly my fault so I'll just eat the consequences." No, you sue anyone a personal injury lawyer thinks could possibly get you a dime because that's survival, baby!
Solution
Solution: don't order delivery eight times a week.
Not a solution
*I* don't order delivery at all. But I still have to deal with scooters delivering other people's deliveries.
Land of opportunity
Sometime when everything else is illegal, the only opportunity is unsavory. Some of these people may not even own the scooters, but rent them. See the NYT:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/15/nyregion/migrant-delivery-unlicensed-...
I'm not saying we owe people anything special, just saying that people will make money any way they can, and if all the other ways are barred this is the way.
I would also like it better if they would keep off the sidewalks. Getting the BPD to enforce this doesn't strike me as likely, though.
Thank you
Thank you for this article and gifting it.
This is 100% Chelsea and what is going on my 'hood.
Also explains why I have weird people who the app says the person is "Michelle" with a pic of a petite lady. But instead, a big burly man shows up with my food.
sigh. I complain about this every time I see one.. they aren't suppose to do this.
This is a side effect
This is a side effect of immigration. People come to the USA from countries where it's normal for scooters and small bikes to putter around town obeying lax traffic controls. As long as you don't run over someone, you're driving fine. They get the US border, present themselves claiming asylum, get settled in sanctuary cities, and start making $$ doing cash jobs like food delivery.
I don't know what it is about
I don't know what it is about Getir, but every single delivery person they hire is a maniac. Sidewalks, wrong way, weaving through pedestrians and cross traffic while running red lights...
It's a relief when I see a non-Getir delivery scooter. For the most part, they obey the law.