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The return of the turtles to San Juan Jamaicapondo
By adamg on Sat, 03/16/2024 - 5:24pm
This afternoon, there were at least five turtles that climbed out of the water for some sun at the traditional turtle sunning spot on the northernish side of Jamaica Pond, including these two, which got a bit more vertical than the three lazing about on a more horizontal tree branch.
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Comments
This sounds racist. what is
This sounds racist. what is the point of the title of this post?
Swallows
The swallows returning annually to San Juan Capistrano is a pretty famous thing. That you have not heard of it does it make the reference to it racist in any way.
My sincerest apologies
I wrote the headline as a silly play on words on an annual event in the California town of San Juan Capistrano that I mistakenly thought readers here would have heard of, and would realize I was just making a goofy reference to, given that today's warm weather meant the turtles had returned (except they never left).
Obviously, at least in your case, I thought wrong, just like you thought wrong about why I might have written the headline I did.
Here, have a song:
thank you for the context.
thank you for the context. that makes more sense, and seems much more like the case of an innocent misunderstanding.
We're getting old
@Adam - I caught the reference immediately, but I'm also old enough to know the song and have heard lots of comedians making jokes and word play about the swallows when I was growing up. It's hard getting older - people don't get our references any more.
It's weird
It's weird being the same age as old people.
Ah, yes, age
And, yeah, I do think twice sometimes before making a reference to something from back in my long ago days as a callow youth.
But this? The swallows still come back to Capistrano, and it's sort of like Groundhog Day, only without a movie about it, so I thought I was safe.
How did things get so long ago?
I keep seeing 60th anniversaries of things I remember and don't understand how that can happen. It was bad enough when it was 50th anniversaries, but how can it be 60 years since I watched the Beatles first appearance on Ed Sullivan?
Like I told the Significant Other...
...when she asked me, "How did we get so old?"
Because we didn't die young.
Getting old sucks
But it beats the alternative.
Not always
.
Geography of "old"
Only the song is old. The swallows still return every year. If you grew up on the other coast, you probably still hear about it happening. It is still a thing.
It is more that it was lost to follow up on the East Coast than "being old", because there was this old song about it.
BTW, the swallows are due in 2 days: https://www.missionsjc.com/st-josephs-day-and-return-of-the-swallows-cel...
handled with grace
thanks.
p.s. it seems the world in fact does not end when you’re falsely accused of racism
Oh brother
Love how anything referencing anything is racist. Hm this thing sounds vaguely Spanish and I don't understand it? Must be racist.
Pretty soon we're not going to have people with accents in Hollywood movies because accents are racist.
Old
But also... there is resonance with "Jamaica Spain," which was racist-ish back in the day when it was applied to JP, but now is just a term of defiance against gentrification and nostalgia. Language changes, neighborhoods change, for good, for ill, and it all bears remembering...
Quick to judgement
Jumping to the idea that the headline was motivate with racism is a good example of not thinking before acting. Familiarity with UHub makes clear whether the headline had racist motivation. The clarity is that the motivation could not have racist intention.
It matters to know context. In this case context would include the editor's history of word play. His word play with the T deserve to be famous as fantastic word play, as well as a great way to provide some humor to the thousands who suffer the T's regular foibles and failures.
FYI
The motivation doesn't matter, and "but the person who wrote it is a good person therefore could never make a racist misstep" is a fallacy.
https://www.ucdenver.edu/docs/librariesprovider7/lunch-and-learn-fliers/...
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/culture-religion-and-psychology/...
https://www.adl.org/resources/tools-and-strategies/when-it-comes-bias-we...
And FWIW, plenty of racist and otherwise bigoted behavior goes on on this site, and Adam doesn't remove most of it. The site being comfortable for you as a white person (and one who frequently says transphobic and sexist things, honestly) is not exactly the best barometer of "oh this kind of thing would never happen here." If people are experiencing something as a microaggression, like the poster did, their experience is valid. It's racist behavior to explain it away. Adam at least did the right thing and took the person's perspective and apologized properly.
And if I hadn't apologized?
And even if I maybe did not apologize completely sincerely?
This whole thing is now completely out of hand, I mean, we're talking about a picture of a couple of turtles sunning themselves under a, granted, stupid headline, but as long as we've gotten this far: What, exactly, is racist about the headline?
The only reason I hit the button to make the initial comment public (see the question further down about why I did): I found it so completely ludicrous I couldn't fathom how somebody could could come up with an assumption of racism for why I wrote that headline, even if, as might have been the case, they had not heard of San Juan Capistrano.
What, exactly, is racist
See the comment about "Jamaica Spain" above. I'm not saying it was racist, obviously, and I can't recall ever seeing a racist headline on this website, but I don't think it's completely beyond the pale for someone who didn't recognize the 'San Juan Capistrano' reference to think that the headline was somehow aligned with decades of racism directed at JP's Hispanic residents.
I like tuttles
The turtles were always there.
They didn't return.
They returned to the surface
From the mud they were in.
Oooh look
Somebody found themselves a new religion, and everyone must agree and practice it!
Time for an agreement to disagree?
Motivation does matter. It's not necessarily the end all be all but when delivering a moral judgement of another it matters to know the person, whether by knowing them personally or by knowing their beliefs and hopes via their writing.
What an interesting statement.
How do you know I am "white?" Assumptions make for bad arguments.
By the way, if you are concerned about racism then let go the word "white" in labeling other people. That is a racist term. How? Learn the history of how "white people" became "white people." It's not about skin color. The term came into legal use as far back as the 16th century in Virginia as an attempt by the colonial legislature of Virginia to create caste division between poor whites, poor free African-Americans and enslaved African-Americans.
If you need to engage in racist language then use the original language that was developed to prove the false science of human races. Sorry, that sounds condescending as in trying to teach a person about the sources of modern day racism.
Provide examples of when I've said "transphobic and sexist things." I will read them and will consider the statements. It will help to provide date and article name. Comments that have no citations tend to sound like the things that the Floridian would be king would do.
Now why did this annoy me? Because after spending several decades dealing with violence from racism and overt and subtle acts of bigotry I choose to not let go unchallenged what, at least in my opinion, is prejudiced vitriol, and worse, are false accusations.
Attacking people who would make, in political terms, natural allies, or even friends is not wise. It is however what Floridian political thugs want to happen. And if the attack comes out of anger then put the anger toward people who deserve it: The folks who want people such as you and I to disappear.
Exactly what I was talking about
Adam, you have a regular commenter who says that calling white people white is racist, in addition to the blatantly transphobic and otherwise bigoted comments they make. You allow such things to stay up.
You have a whole mob of people here who don't understand anti-racism 101 in that, yes, impact absolutely matters more than intent.
Just saying that your comment sections here look really really different from more diverse spaces where most of the commenters would have just trusted the lived experience of the first commenter and focused on how there was something about it that felt wrong to someone, and that's enough to reconsider it. Your commenters though are rushing to side with the white person. This isn't a space where marginalized voices are listened to.
"The motivation doesn't matter..."
Honestly, there's no reason to read beyond that. Motivation always matters.
Well ...
There are some words and phrases I once used that I no longer do because I've learned of their biased origins. When I did use them (think of a word for cheating on a deal or a phrase for the vehicle police use to transport suspects), I wasn't motivated by racism or ethnic hatred, I just didn't know any better. I know better now, so don't use them.
Same with the turtle headline.
That was my point about motivation mattering. Yours was to amuse, not to slur.
Thanks, yes
No slur intended, and, as far as I can tell, none given, even if unintentionally.
Motivation always matters.
sure, but the actual point is that intent doesn't trump impact. if i accidentally elbow you in the face, you probably wouldn’t appreciate my immediately beginning to yell about how nobody watches where they’re going anymore. pretty simple stuff.
what should be considered above all IMO is that conversations about racism can be resolved fairly easily. no one died here; there was no miscarriage of justice.
Oooo I got here first
Adorable!
Unlike geese, they don't migrate south
Instead, Massachusetts turtles go into brumation, which is sort of like the reptile version of hibernation, except it involves burrowing into mud and doesn't require much in the way of breathing.
There are thousands of this
There are thousands of this particular species of turtle in Jamaica pond. They all would like a turn on the log but sometimes the one closest to the surface of the water just doesn't feel like climbing up any higher to make room for others. This turtle is known as the asshole turtle.
The thing I'm curious about ...
Is why that particular collection of branches and logs brings all the turtles to its yard.
There are a number of other spots all along the pond that offer similar places to clamber out of the water, and you do see turtles at those spots from time to time, but nothing like you do at this one particular place. Is it in the sun longer or something?
The higher the branch the nearer to God?
Assuming the branch is the highest in the pond (probably an incorrect assumption) I am reminded of the idea behind high hair. The higher the hair the nearer to God. if beehive hairdos can put a person closer to God why shouldn't turtles enjoy the same privilege?
Safety in numbers?
Less likely to get snacked on if its turtles all the way down?
I have also noticed when out kayaking that the turtles prefer their deadwood sunstations be in areas devoid of current, probably so they don't sway or move too much.
That's no obstacle
To a turtle, another turtle is just another basking surface. They'll pile on top of one another if necessary.
Probably not thousands
For one thing, eastern painted turtles (Chrysemys picta picta) probably outnumber the sliders. They're smaller turtles, and can be identified most easily by the pattern of the scutes on their upper shells. If they line up in even rows, you're looking at an eastern painted turtle; all other turtles in this area have staggered scutes.
Namesake pond
Got to see a spotted one making its way from the golf course to turtle pond last weekend
Peepers!
I heard peepers this week, yet another sign of spring. A bit early, though??
No, now's about the right time
You should start hearing wood frogs too, and then pickerel frogs. The former sound like ducks quacking softly; the latter sound like a snore.
For those interested in observational info
The National Phenology Network gathers data on a wide variety of seasonal indicators across the country.
Not sure if "peeper orgy outbreak" is one of them, but there are a lot of other indicators of seasonal changes - and shifts - in their observations.
This sounds racist.
Adam, curious as to why you posted this.
Too woke for anyone’s good
I may have to take a break from Universalhub. Seriously people? Is everything off limits?
Not woke
Not woke, just dumb.
Those are not native turtles
They are red eared sliders, Trachemys scripta elegans. They're native to the Mississippi Valley, and these ones are probably descendents of escaped pets.
This sounds racist
Still haven't seen an explanation.
anon
Adam specifically references your comment in his apology
Try reading the replies
You just sound like a shit-stirrer at this point.
The world of information is divided into signal and noise.
My philosophy is to pay attention to the signal and ignore the noise.