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Yes, some gays marched in the South Boston parade - and so did the guy who thinks they're evil scum
By adamg on Sun, 03/16/2014 - 10:39pm
Lively getting ready to march in South Boston. Photo by Arturo Gossage.
As the Globe told us this morning, a "small contingent" of gay South Boston residents quietly marched in today's parade.
Also marching today: Scott Lively, a Springfield minister who wants to make it illegal to promote gay rights and who has written that the Nazis were especially evil because their leaders, including Hitler, were gay.
A talk by Lively in Uganda was the beginning of an effort to make homosexuality there punishable by death, although he says that the death penalty would not be his first preference.
Lively is running for governor this year.
Photo copyright Arturo Gossage.
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Comments
An obvious graduate of
the Doug Bennett school of political calligraphy.
Those signs are the balls
Those signs are the balls
Finally admitting the story
You have to admit, the narrative- quiet negotiations based on establishing common ground (being a part of the community and not wanting outsiders to dictate the tenor of the events)- was a lot less newsworthy than what Marty Walsh was working on, but in the end a group celebrating diversity in Southie marched in the parade. Perhaps if Mass Equality, who are apparently the self appointed head of gay people, and the South Boston Allied War Veterans can end their pissing match we won't have to deal with this next year.
As for the crazy idiot from Western Mass, politicians march in the parade, and has he is running for Governor he is no different than other politicians, other than of course his crazy ideas and the fact that he has a snowball's chance in hell of winning.
In other words, the former story, though subtle, is the bigger story by a long shot. The latter story is a sign of a bias against the parade. The next thing you'll say is that there are no gay Ghostbusters.
You're probably right
In the greater scheme of things, Lively is not going to be governor of this state, ever, but there will be a St. Patrick's parade next year and maybe, maybe, we'll see more progress and the situation described by the Globe will prove a welcome first step.
But we're not talking about some harmless crank here. Uganda is proof of that.
You seriously buy that BS
You seriously buy that BS narrative that Uganda would be a gay paradise if not for the United States? A lot of countries are kind of terrible and quite capable of being terrible places without any outside interference from the US, despite the view of many that every single thing on the face of the earth is the United States' fault.
The Missionary Position
Nobody is blaming the United States. We're blaming Lively himself. The laws passed in Uganda are the direct result of lobbying by missionaries that happen to be United States citizens. The bad things done by missionaries of all nationalities [in the name of god or just as an aside] are well cataloged going from the times of the Spanish Conquistadors all the way up to modern times. Sure Uganda might still be a generally un-accepting place without the influence of Lively, but he did help directly push for criminalization which might not have occurred otherwise.
That's complete BS bordering
That's complete BS bordering on racism. Uganda might be governed by black Africans but they're still capable of self-determination without white people telling them what to do. They're also perfectly capable of being homophobic on their own.
Are you seriously trying to
Are you seriously trying to excuse Lively on the grounds that Uganda would be the same without him? Like that totally absolves him? That's beyond ridiculous.
Please read up on Lively
While they are capable of being hateful on their own, yes, it doesn't help when some "missionaries" begin writing laws for them to pass and lying to them about how HIV is spread in the population.
Well then by that logic, if
Well then by that logic, if we just send some gay lobbyists over there, they should be able to make Uganda the most gay friendly place in the universe in no time flat since they have no ideas of their own and will just do what any white guy tells them.
Sorry, you want to talk about
Sorry, you want to talk about logic? Because anti-gay missionaries influenced Ugandan politics, gay advocates would be able to do the same? Uh......
<<<Poof>>> be gone!
Davery is just making a lame attempt to bait ppl into an online scuffle and make it look racist and/or elitist. Stop feeding him your words and logic...
Source please?
Re: "narrative that Uganda would be a gay paradise if not for the United States?"
Where is the idea from? Or did you make it up on your own?
*ANY country would be better off without Lively's "narrative", thank you very much.
Uh, the article we're
Uh, the article we're commenting on where Adam says "A talk by Lively in Uganda was the beginning of an effort to make homosexuality there punishable by death." As though Uganda would not be a horrible backwards country if this idiot didn't go there. They were already virulent homophobes and merely invited some idiot to speak who agrees with them.
There, that's my source. A bunch of people believe this, I see it in liberal news outlets all the time. Google American evangelicals Uganda gay if you really care. These people think America made Russia homophobic too.
Wrong again Davery
No except you said anyone was blaming the law in Uganda on "the US". But Scott Lively and others from the US in fact were in large part responsible for writing, promoting, and popularizing the anti gay laws in Uganda.
And although I do read what you call the "liberal press" and also the gay press almost every day, I have never read that anyone is connecting anti gay laws in Russia with any effort by Scott Lively and his kind. What is true is that the Scott Lively and his kind support those laws in Russia, they did not have a hand in actually writing and promoting them.
Davery-the question is do you really buy your own BS?
Please calm down and familiarize yourself with actual facts. Adam even provided links for you. You might also try to look things up yourself.
A true psychopath
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/profiles/scott-...
He left the west coast, in part, because his own ilk could no longer stand his extreme lies. They guy is absolutely consumed with hatred.
The Family
No one is saying that "every single thing on the face of the earth is the United States' fault," but the facts are that American conservatives have had a hand in creating the anti-gay hysteria in places like Uganda and Nigeria.
In 2009, Lively traveled to Uganda with Lou Engle and Carl Ellis Jenkins, where they held an anti-gay conference. The theme was that it is a "lie" that science has proven that gays are born that way, with Lively claiming "There is no definitive scientific study that has ever proved that homosexuality is innate." Seven months later, Ugandan leadership announced they would move forward on an anti-gay bill, which was written by David Bahati back in 2008.
Bahati is a member of the secretive religious group known as The Family, which is composed mainly of American conservatives. They have been active in Africa for a long time, and they have been instrumental in shaping anti-gay views. Pastor Rick Warren, Rep Joe Pitts (R-PA), and Senator Jim Inhoffe (R-OK) have all traveled to Africa on anti-gay missions; Inhoffe even said that he likes going to Uganda because he can "always get in to see the kings."
Pat Robertson has deep ties to the Family (his father was the vice-president in his day), and continues to broadcast his "700 Club" throughout Africa; his "700 Club Nigeria" program claims to have turned a gay man straight. Since its creation in 1993, the 7,000 member Family Worship Center in Abuja has been run by Ina Omkau, a graduate of Robertson’s Regent University.
http://waitiseesomething.com/2012/07/10/the-family-in-africa/
Guess everyone forgot about
Guess everyone forgot about WW II , and the evil axis , when this great country fought on two fronts ,on opposite sides of the world , at the same time , before computers and other technologies ,with only true grit and a whole lot of spilt blood.
Exactly
And all those folks didn't fight so some extremely obsessed and hateful people could claim that it is God's word to torture, imprison, and execute Gay people.
Lively in no way represents the United States - in fact, he started spreading hate elsewhere because freedom-loving Americans rejected his message pretty decisively.
The S.B. Allied War Veterans...
are also not the self-appointed head of all Irish people, including those who live in South Boston. Far From it. They simply run the parade.
No they are not
But it is their parade.
I was watching the news with the Missus Saturday night when I thought, "wouldn't it be hillarious if the South Boston Allied War Veterans found a group of gay Irish veterans who would abide by their rules and let them march next year." Then the issue most specifically would be that they won't allow Mass Equality to march, just like they won't let Mass Citizens for Life march.
By the way, you all noticed that the crackpots pictured don't have any anti-gay signs. You know they'd be pulled out in a New York second if they had.
they won't let Mass Citizens
Anyone care to provide a citation on this claim? It came up earlier and someone said it was in Bay State Banner, which I think was supposed to be a joke. In any case, I checked and there was no mention.
Stated again in the Globe
The article about the gay couple that were building a float that had to do with a neighborhood park, I think? I've never heard this either, thought my grams is a big MCFL supporter and I know there's a very active chapter in (I think) West Roxbury that I can imagine would fit right in with Wacko and the gang. I feel like if MCFL was denied, I would have heard about it at a family dinner. At length. Repeatedly.
I'll play along
So, can you prove that Mass Citizens for Life DID march in the parade? Did you watch the parade?
I will have to admit, I was told this by someone who watches the parade. And is a lot more liberal than I am. Not being from Southie, I do not have access to the local papers to see if they list who is marching. I know MCFL marches in the Roslindale Parade, and I know how I can prove this.
To be fair, it could be that MCFL never asked to be in the parade. My point is that despite the controversy, the Allied War Veterans do avoid controversial entrants.
Huh? The only question is did
Huh? The only question is did the block them or not. That's the claim people are making. Anything else is irrelevant.
Fair enough
I cannot offer proof that MCFL asked to march in the parade and were denied.
The implication I bring is that MCFL does not march in the parade because the organizers want to keep "statements" out of it. There is nothing offered that they do march, as opposed to representatives of the Imperial Stormtrooper Veterans Benefit Society whose presence has been noted.
wouldn't be much of a parade
if it was just the Allied War Veterans watching their own members march through a private parking lot, would it? Every year up to a million spectators come from all over the region, thousands of participants march and build floats, hundreds of police officers provide security, the T deploys an all-out effort to get everyone there, city streets are shut down, the dpw sets up miles of barricades and performs a massive cleanup, the media promotes the event...
The Allied War Veterans do not own the parade, they merely have the privilege of organizing it and they haven't done a very good job of making it inclusive. It's not like having a parade on a holiday in a city is some original idea that only they could pull off- I'm sure there are plenty of other groups that would be happy to take over.
It is their parade
That is the very nature of being the parade organizers. Are you not familiar with Hurley v Irish-American GLIB ? They might do a crappy job, but the parade is theirs.
Private Organization
They can just have their little clique and someone else can organize the parade.
That clique happens to organize the parade now, but they don't have to.
Or they can keep on doing what they are doing
Because they want to. And given the turnout every year, there are people who are glad the organize the parade. Once again, people might want a bit more inclusive parade, but they are the ones that do it.
This is not that tough to understand. People put on a parade. Second graders can get this.
So Wacko thinks its ok to march if you advocate murdering gays
This is not hyperbole or exaggeration. Look it up. Adam provided some links. There's a lot more.
Scott Lively has actively promoted "kill the gays" laws in Africa, in addition to promoting all kinds of hate directed at gays here in the USA. He is the lowest form of human excrement. But in Wacko's old feeble excuse for a brain, gays are bad, and Scott Lively is good. This is truly disgusting, as are Wacko and his band of idiots and supporters.
Hey chief
Gay people marched in the parade so you can stop trying to be an online activist. Its over, nothing else to whine about, take a lap and move on.
*
**
Yeah guys, take it from TJ -
Yeah guys, take it from TJ - bigotry is totally over!
I never made that claim
I meant the parade itself is over... and for those of you who still think the organizers are bigoted because of what happened with MassEquality please refer to pictures/memories of gay men smiling and waving alongside a rainbow-colored equality float.
One float that had to march
One float that had to march under a vague "diversity" pretense because gay people have no right participating in civil society - that's a real accomplishment!
Wacko and the Council
let republicans march every year.
Maybe they were in the unofficial second parade
that some posters here have alluded to, trying ridiculously to exclude the Stormtrooper contingent when confronted with the obvious fact that not every official entrant is all about being Irish or veterans, but I caught a bunch of marchers representing Veterans for Peace and the ACLU at the very tail end, phalanxed by the BPD. Nobody clapped for or booed them; they were just marching, holding signs indicating their affiliation. It was no big deal. Imagine that.
Gutless
Drama pays the bills I get that but biased media sources are truly the scum of the earth. You couldn't even post one remotely positive thing about the parade without bashing it in the same sentence. You are the antithesis of all the gay people who proudly marched despite a thick shroud of media-driven negativity.
Feh
I had some nice photos of the parade to post (here's one). But I couldn't even post some simple photos from an entirely different parade 30 miles away without without people like you getting all righteously indignant. So when I saw the Lively photo, yeah, I said, screw it, that's not tolerance, that's giving a platform to a guy famous for ranting about how gays are secretly Nazis and serial killers. And I'd just had enough.
Yes, this is a disservice to the vast majority of people who just wanted to see a parade, who have nothing to do with the veteran's group, etc., etc. I should have just ignored your repeated messages about the Globe article and run those nice photos (if that story had run yesterday, I would have linked to it. But the day of the parade, when I'm getting ready to drive my daughter to Scituate? Sorry, I chose not making her wait over creating a link to that story) . Fortunately, there are plenty of other places where people can see what the parade was like.
Parade Charades in a March march...
..are something of a handful, what with all the clamor and posturing from two opposed proponents of attention whoring and grand standing grandiosity one finds in anxious backwaters.
Getting a daughter to a memorable moment easily beats baby sitting contesting screeching attention whores who increasingly come to resemble each other.
At the end of the day, gay sex and Jesus are wonderful enough, but their respective fan bases can be a handful.
To be perfectly honest
I had no idea who Scott Lively was or what sort of heinous filth he preached until I read your post. If anything you gave him far more attention than he deserved on a day when focus should've been elsewhere. You could've chose to not post anything about the Southie parade but instead you slipped in a snarky "Yea so gay people really aren't banned (even though I've been furthering that misconception for weeks now) BUT did you know the organizers also let this wack-job march?!" Like hmm I need to deflect some attention away from this positive story because it doesn't quite fit my overall message so I'll just find another negative aspect of the parade to talk about. Call me "righteously indignant" if it makes you feel better but what really gets under my skin is the fact that UHub is probably the most unbiased media source in the Greater Boston area... EXCEPT when the topic concerns South Boston or the parade in particular.
A spade is a spade.
Yeah, how dare he actually report both sides!
A couple of notes:
1) He did mention the Globe article about the float, in a way I actually found little evidence of snark. He did express some surprise that that article was virtually the first mention of this group and float. If you had an alternative source of information about that subject, you were always free to point it out. Unlike the Globe, Adam doesn't have a bullpen full of reporters he can send out to get these kinds of stories, and the Globe still didn't report this until the day of the parade.
2) This is a blog, run by one independent guy. Of course it is going to reflect the editorial sensibilities of the guy running it. Do you spend this much time railing against Fox News?
Now, the fact that you started this post by admitting that you were previously unaware of who Scott Lively was, yet have chosen to fly off the handle in this and previous comments about coverage of his participating in the parade calls into question your credibility, not Adam's.
Bravo, Lecil!
Well said! Thank you!
If no one seems to understand
... start your own revolution and cut out the middle man. (Billy Bragg)
You also could have chosen to set up your own special South Boston blog and report things as you see fit. I don't see why you think that Adam has any responsibility to keep you, or me, or anybody but himself happy with what he covers and posts. Its his media, and his message.
boo hoo, poor lil TJ Southie
Go searching the internet to read more about Lively and let the take away from today be that you learned about something (someone) new, and that what UHub publishes isn't all about you and your feelings. There's no Southie bashing going on here...it is what it is, speaks for itself...often without provocation.
late to the party
Well I was done with this topic but since it seems you enjoyed adding your two cents I'll respond.
I don't want or need to learn more about Lively, didn't take very long to find out he's an absolute scumbag. If you have a problem regarding who the state allows to run for public office then I suggest you take it up with the Supreme Court. Lively is running for governor, and regardless of personal beliefs all politicians relevant to the area are given the opportunity to march in the parade.
I'm well aware that Adam possesses free-will and the right to post whatever he wants with very few limitations. I am perfectly fine with that, and I've applauded him in the past for his willingness to promptly report what is actually going on in and around the city (crime in particular). My issue with South Boston/parade coverage on UHub stems from the drastically one-sided focus on the, often inflated, negative aspects. So when I saw the Globe article on Sunday about the diversity float I went on a mini-crusade to get Adam to link that story. However, (I'm guessing just to spite me, which is fine because I deserved it) instead of simply linking the positive story by itself he twisted the message and gave even more focus to some skidmark-stain of a politician.
When you say things like: "No Southie bashing going on here... it is what it is, speaks for itself... often without provocation." you are completely contradicting yourself in the same statement. Stories like this don't speak for themselves... they speak in whichever tone and context the publisher decides to present them in; subsequently readers are drawn toward a particular opinion. People have a strong tendency to group all lifelong Southie residents into one hateful mass of ignorance; I'm just here to tell anyone who cares enough to listen that there's a lot more to this than meets the media's eye.
I'm confused...?
Does Adam suck for being not gay or does he suck for not reporting what you wanted him to?
wacko was right
For banning signs in the parade or these morons or clowns like the Westboro Baptist Church would have marched with hate signs directed at gays
Wacko won again. Now, back to space savers..
So now that Wacko and the Southie Vets once again won this fight without even breaking a sweat; as they always knew they would, because nobody tells them or South Boston what to do, can we now please just go back to ranting about space savers? We still have a few days of winter left.
Cheerleading is over until next season
You can put away your pom-poms for Wacko and the "gang" away until next year.
I'm sure you sweated mightily creating your passionate posts in the past few weeks so go have
a Sam Adams beer or two. But, don't forget to put a brown wrapper around
the label - otherwise some people might get the wrong idea.
good luck next year
When the illiterate winner have no money and their begging letters to new sources are tossed out as an obvious prank by a young letter opener due to all the bad writing.
Congrats on your win, Wacko.
Congrats on your win, Wacko. How many years in a row is that winning Biggest Asshole in Boston? In any case, congrats again on your win and I hope you enjoy the tiara that comes with it.
Run Scott
Run Scott Runn.......
Mayors
Our Irish a Mayor following in the footsteps of our Italian Mayor.
What a fantastic holiday
Really brings out the best in everyone
Lovely Holiday
I feel bad for the snakes.
Ya dont mention the fact
their was a gay float in the parade.
You mean like in the title of
You mean like in the title of the article?
What other parades do the
Vets from Mass Stupidity plan on walking in, or do they still only exist in spirit....
Lynch flip flopped and marched
I read in the Globe that Lynch flip flopped and marched in the parade, after saying he wouldn't march unless the issue was resolved. He said "skipping the parade would be a disservice to his South Boston neighbors." He should remember he is a representative for more than just southie. Its one thing if he had said all along like Nick Collins that he was marching, but this guy is such a coward that he tries to stand up and say he is taking a stand against something he thinks is unjust and then sneaks into the parade and, when confronted, says the greater injustice would be if he didnt march.
What a wuss.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/03/16/controversy-forgotten-for-mo...
Can someone please explain again...
What did Massequality want to do that the organizers objected to? I'm still unclear on why Massequality said no to what sounded like some reasonable requests to keep politics and sexuality out of the parade as they've done in a number of other cases (you can argue about the decadence that has gone on among the viewers - but sounds like between the ropes people are usually well behaved).
Thanks to whomever can answer.
It's a reasonable request to
It's a reasonable request to keep politics out of the parade? Maybe, but about a dozen politicians march every year. Furthermore, treating American citizens equally is only political because a fringe group of bigots have decided so. The rest of us don't see everyone enjoying equal treatment as a major political issue. We see it as a given fact of life.
No, its been explained
No, its been explained hundreds of times, you can read the countless explanations already written.
Really? Where?
All I've seen officially from Massequality is a demand that they march "openly" with no definition of what that is.
I think Massequality overplayed their hand here. They "won" in the short term (I think we all lost in the end). But in the long term groups like the one in the Globe article will prove that the parade is open to all. But nobody wants to see people march just because they are gay. Just like I don't want to see people march just because they are even Irish and I don't want to see someone in the pride parade just because they are gay. You want to march - you have to earn it. Do something special. Being gay isn't special. Fortunately for all of us in Mass, being gay means you're just like everyone else now. Apparently Massequality missed that memo.
Question about the timing of comment posting
Adam
You may or may not be aware that there is a lag time between the time comments are included in the total comment count and the time they are actually available to view. In some cases, like this article, it takes about 15-20 minutes. Also some individual comments in the recent comments list are not available for a while even after the link to the comment is posted on the recent list.
And keep up the good work. I love Universal Hub.
Thanks, I need to look into that
Sounds like what's happening is the count is getting updated in real time as messages go live (either because they're by people with accounts, whose comments go live instantly or they're anonymous ones that I've published from the admin queue they go into first), but then the messages, at least for people not logged in, don't appear until the page cache is refreshed, which takes 10-15 minutes (unless I refresh it by hand).
Or if he doesn't agree with
Or if he doesn't agree with what you say. What a tolerant guy.
Yeah, clearly.
And yet all of you ranty anonymous bozos seem to get your whiny posts through just fine--how do you explain that?
That's just BS... With some
That's just BS... With some of the comments I've seen posted, I can't imagine what you would have to type to have a comment omitted.
he is running for governor,
he is running for governor, they allowed all the candidates to march in the parade. they did not let him hold homophobic signs. I suspect he will not get many votes