Hey, there! Log in / Register
Fenway bar not to blame for shooting that left man dead outside its doors, board rules
By adamg on Wed, 12/30/2015 - 3:39pm
The Boston Licensing Board ruled today that Who's on First was not to blame for a quadruple shooting on Nov. 26 that left Jephthe Chery of Hyde Park dead.
Although police detectives testified two weeks ago that one of the two shooters had been in the bar until closing, he appeared to have gone around the corner to retrieve the gun with which he opened fire. The second shooter, they and a bar attorney said, had not been in the bar.
One man, Dominique Carpenter-Grady of Dorchester, has been arrested on firearms charges related to the case. He has not been charged with murder, however.
A BPD sergeant testified he had checked the bar about an hour before closing and that things seemed OK. He added that he and other officers were near the front of the bar at closing but that they were called away on a report of a fight around the corner. They returned, after finding no fight, just in time to hear the end of the gunfire.
The bar did agree to install exterior surveillance cameras and to post signs that they are operational in an attempt to move people with violent tendencies along.
This is the second time in recent months the board has ruled Who's on First had nothing to do with a shooting outside its doors. In October, the board issued a similar finding for a Sept. 6 incident in which two women were shot.
Neighborhoods:
Topics:
Ad:
Support Universal Hub
Help keep Universal Hub going. If you like what we're up to and want to help out, please consider a (completely non-deductible) contribution.
Comments
BPD's focus on the bar and its license
What if a patron had carried a gun, legally or illegally, inside Who's On First before committing assault with it, a lethal weapon, outside later? Is the bar implicated in any wrongdoing? I don't think so.
Does the bar have a duty to detect if a patron is carrying a firearm? I don't think so.
What if an employee does see a patron carrying a firearm, what is expected of them as an employee?
It seems to me the bar is not an accomplice in any way but it seems to be a place where gang members go and that is not an illegal act.
What is the Boston Police department trying to accomplish by lodging complaints with the Boston Licensing Board beyond obtaining this sorts of measure: "install exterior surveillance cameras and to post signs that they are operational." If that's all they what, why not just ask?
Patdowns
FWIW-Acoccording to tv news repot I saw this afternoon, the bar was conducting pat-down searches of patrons at the entrance, presumably as a result of the pror shooting.
Patdowns, for a bar?
What country is this?
Or ...
What decade is this? This is hardly a new practice at Boston bars.
Yes.
The one with the world's highest per-capita gun ownership?
Not sure where you're going with this, fella, but if I owned a bar with an occasionally rough clientele that had played host to a shooting a few months earlier, I'd be patting down customers too.
Does the bar have a duty to
Does the bar have a duty to detect if a patron is carrying a firearm? I don't think so.
It's a good thing you don't have a Boston liquor or even food-serving license, then. In order to get a license you basically have to agree that you are responsible for what goes on in your premises. If your bar has had a problem with guns in the past and you don't pat down incoming patrons - or install metal detectors - the next time a patron shoots somebody, you might be in trouble, even if you hire McDermott, Quilty and Miller (basically the licensing/zoning law firm in Boston) to represent you.
What if an employee does see a patron carrying a firearm, what is expected of them as an employee?
To call 911 immediately. You'd be surprised at how many bars get tripped up on this. Ask John Rogaris, to cite the most extreme example.
Also, please don't confuse a homicide investigation with a licensing citation. Homicide detectives did not testify at this hearing, the citation was issued by the patrol supervisor for D-4 who was on duty at the time, not a homicide detective (who I don't think can issue one, anyway) and the board's decision has no bearing on that investigation or any criminal charges that might spring from it. Although people who testify before the board are sworn in, their penalties are civil, not criminal.
What if...
A patron leaves your bar, goes around the corner and retrieves a weapon and kills someone with it. How do you prevent that?
Nothing. And assuming you did
Nothing. And assuming you did not over-serve them, the decisions they made to obtain and use a weapon are on the murderer, not you, the bar. And that is why the licensing board did not find the bar at fault in this case.
Wait, what does my original post say?
The board responded to the real-life situation that matched your hypothetical by finding the bar was not at fault (technically, they voted "no violation").
thanks for your explanation.
Did BPD have any evidence the bar was not complying with its obligations under the liquor license or just the history of violence outside the club after hours?
Any word on identifying the suspects who killed Jephthe Chery of Hyde Park?
Well like most contracts of adhesion
The party writing the contract/agreement usually tries limit their risk in issuing a LL.
The bar could stop having hip hop and rap events
but that would be "discriminatory" and politically incorrect, hence they are off the hook so more shootings can take place at a future "urban" event.
It wouldn't be politically
It wouldn't be politically incorrect; it would be stupid. Who are you gonna crack down on, those gang bangers in De La Soul? Maybe you can finally get ?uestlove off the streets. That guy's a menace with his Sesame Street appearances.
OK, Pops
I get the feeling that if you were a bit older you'd be blaming problem of juvenile delinquency on Elvis's dance moves.
The problem here is gangs, not the music. Banning hip hop will solve the gang problem to the same extent banning BSO events will solve white collar banking crimes.
Classical music events at Who's On First solves the gang problem
there. I promise there won't be shootings outside if classical, jazz, or even edm was being played inside. There aren't shootings where those genres are played - its not the place, its the music and the crowd that music brings that is the problem.
How many times have you been
How many times have you been to a Q-Tip show, Markkk? Did the crowd scare you?
There was a fatal stabbing at
There was a fatal stabbing at Royal during an EDM show...