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GE brings good things to the South Boston waterfront?
By adamg on Wed, 01/13/2016 - 11:29am
General Electric announced today it's moving its corporate headquarters to the South Boston waterfront from Connecticut.
“GE aspires to be the most competitive company in the world,” said GE Chairman and CEO Jeff Immelt. “Today, GE is a $130 billion high-tech global industrial company, one that is leading the digital transformation of industry. We want to be at the center of an ecosystem that shares our aspirations. Greater Boston is home to 55 colleges and universities. Massachusetts spends more on research & development than any other region in the world, and Boston attracts a diverse, technologically-fluent workforce focused on solving challenges for the world. ...
In Boston, GE will have roughly 800 people; 200 from corporate staff and 600 digital industrial product managers, designers and developers split between GE Digital, Current, robotics and Life Sciences. A GE Digital Foundry will be created for co-creation, incubation and product development with customers, startups and partners.
The company did not say specifically where the new headquarters would be, but that employees will start moving up here this summer. GE expects the entire move to take about two years.
Mayor Walsh announced he is readying a $25-million tax break while the state is looking at a $120-million goodie bag to entice GE to move its high-paid executives here.
In addition, the two announced extra commitments, including $1 million for workforce training and money to help "eligible" GE workers buy homes in Boston. Also: "Up to $5 million for an innovation center to forge connections between GE and innovators from Massachusetts research institutions and the higher education community."
The two also agreed not to renege on plans to improve transportation in the waterfront area.
In a statement, Walsh said:
Boston is delighted and honored to welcome General Electric and its employees to our community and we are confident that this is the start of a strong partnership.
In addition to the tax breaks - to be spread out over 20 years, GE will finance the move by selling its current headquarters in Fairfield, CT and offices at 30 Rockefeller Plaza in New York.
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Comments
Great work
Baker & Walsh!
THANK GOD
At long last someone is finally interested in the waterfront. That part of the city is nothing more then rundown, abandoned warehouses and decrepit, cheap apartments. Maybe now there will actually be some real investment in that part of town. If we're lucky this will help fill the glut of housing inventory we have in the city and the region.
Whatever tax breaks were offered is worth it to clean up that horrible slum.
:)
:)
GE deserves a billion dollar
GE deserves a billion dollar subsidy for moving jobs to the city and saving us from not being World Class TM.
The state can raise the billion by canceling the Green Line extension!
Saint John Fish has proclaimed GE our new lord and savior!
How do you like us NOW, Haters?!?
This is yet another time that I get to ask that (I don't even need the GE news to do so, but hell, it's another opportunity).
You see, when I was working on the Convention Center project in the late 90s, all we ever heard was that we were idiots for putting this thing "down on the waterfront" (a pejorative then), that we should enlarge the Hynes because "the Back Bay is where everyone wants to go", "no one will ever go over to that windswept wasteland of Southie", "it's going to be a white elephant", yada, yada, yada. The same type of stuff was said of Massport and John Drew developing the Seaport Hotel and office complex.
Well, Haters? Well? Ready to STFU and express at least some thanks that some people around here had vision? Ready to maybe defer to some of those people again on some more big thinking (major public transit improvements)?!?
I'm sorry, I don't often engage in the I-told-you-so stuff, but when anyone was this right on something this big, it needs to be done.
I am with you here , and as
I am with you here , and as always, A street is our friend too !
I'm glad you asked
The BCC was designed to funnel public money to convention related businesses and leeches like Rooney. So it's your hot take that natural real estate pressures would have left the parking lots right near downtown and the harbor and the airport as parking lots as commercial development exploded across the city? I mean, really? Did all the development around Fenway Park happen because we gave Yawkey Way to the Red Sox too? The vibrancy of the Fort Point Channel district and the Greenway do as much to make this area appealing for development as your space ship hanger white elephant which allegedly still needs $1b in public underwriting to really soar.
But seriously, congratulations on soaking a little money out of every car rental coming from Logan to feather your nest.
*But seriously,
*But seriously, congratulations on soaking a little money out of every car rental coming from Logan to feather your nest.*
Not just Logan. I pay the fee annually for my Zipcar membership, and everytime I rent a car at the Enterprise in Rozzie.
It's outrageous
I mean all that and they still want more money. It's like a shady mechanic telling about the new problems they found after your car is up on the lift.
Me, too
But from the Enterprise at Gov't Center, which I guess I can kind of see as it's in the middle of downtown. But they're charging that fee in ROZZIE? Wow.
It's a city wide thing
As a zipcar person who used to rent in the city.. I always booked a car the first of the year so I could get charged that fee (you only get it once a year)
It's a city wide thing.. so it didnt matter if I rented the car at the airport, Govt Center Garage, or on a side street in the SoEnd. I always got hit with that fee if it was my first rental of the year.
There was no private development until public investment
Your cynicism is noted.
The area now known as the South Boston Waterfront had been through umpteen positive economic cycles where office rents in downtown Boston soared - yet there was no development down there.
It was not until the developments that I mentioned, PLUS, dare we acknowledge a positive thing about it, the Big Dig I-90 extension, that private development began.
Be honest, without those three things, would you have used your own money in the boom time late 90s to built and office tower (or, don't make me laugh, a residential tower!) out there all by itself? People who know a lot more about development than we do weren't doing it.
Again, the Fenway is a good counter example
Why was Boylston St full of one story tire stores and the like until the past decade? You really think that kind of development wouldn't have happened @ the BCC site? All over the Rosi/WR area, gas stations and crappy little buildings are getting knocked down and turned into 4 story apartment towers, but somehow prime real estate right downtown in the thick of everything would have remained dusty car lots like a scene out of Eddie Coyle if not for the heroes who made the BCC? Sorry, I really don't buy that.
The entire city is a booming development market over the past decade as you've probably noticed. I'd hazard a guess that if we'd allowed private development on the huge BCC site, we'd have seen more development of housing, luxury and not, in that area now which would be a much bigger win moving forward, even without collecting the BCC 'vig' on people who want to rent a car for purposes other than hooking up hotel and convention insiders.
The thought that
The thought that conventioneers from, like, Iowa or wherever come to town and see the barren wasteland of the South Boston waterfront and go home thinking that was "Boston" really makes me sad. They must think that Boston is a soulless, boring, generic city and wonder why they couldn't have the convention in that old strip mall outside Cedar Rapids instead. I'm certain that anyone whose first visit to Boston centers on BCAE and the surrounding area won't make a second.
Yes
Because I'm sure they don't venture outside of the convention center area, just like when I visit the Javitts center in NYC. I can't believe people rave about NYC when all I see when I'm there is a 4 lane highway and a barren riverfront with a convention center. I can see large buildings in the distance, but that must be NJ, or Brooklyn.
You don't seem to know what
You don't seem to know what you are talking about. People on business usually look for something near the hotel or their meeting place, they can't always take a day to wander around.
Gate shows
It wasn't until the BCEC reneged on the promise they wouldn't hold gate shows did the interest in the area took off.
I do not believe any bullshit the developers or tax dodgers tell me.
Any word on what sort of jobs
Any word on what sort of jobs this will bring to Boston? Any word on the amount of money the GE employees will pump into the economy (and pay taxes on)? Any word on the rent and condos the GE employees will lease (and pay property taxes on)? Or are the tax breaks that companies got to move into seaport, which a decade ago was literally a barren waste land used to dispose of bodies from crimes (plus 2 seedy bars people are generally happy to see go), all that we care about.
From the article....
Not sure what exactly the net gain is, but doesn't sound like a bad deal to me to bring in the HQ of a $150 billion company
"infrastructure improvements"
I will be very interested to hear what these are. The seaport is badly in need of some transportation improvements as is.
GE sponsored silverline
Would be nice to see the silverline become an actual rail line
No word on what sort of tax
And the race to the bottom continues. If companies are so interested in moving here for the talent and business/tech community, why do we have to bribe them? In an ideal world we'd be asking them to pay to show up, maybe, I don't know, into a fund to help the complete transit clusterfuck that is getting in and out of the waterfront at this point, but that's a pipe dream that'll never happen in today's dollar-at-all-cost business culture.
HUGE TAX BREAKS
I'm guessing HUGE tax breaks to have a company leave another state for this one. That has to be the only way they would entertain such a move. Gotta love corporations who beg for welfare.
Spare the jobs argument... really.
Meanwhile we're still riding on broken down trains. BPS wants to cut budget. BFD is complaining about the age of fire stations. We still have many bridges in decay.
But that's OK.. we just gave huge tax breaks for a mega corporation to move here, nothing else matters I guess.
From the Globe:
See?
Giving a multi-billion dollar corporation tax breaks.. right.
While the rest of us have to suffer....
Imagine if we had that 20 Mil or 120Mil what we could do with it.....
Should have charged them a premium
You want to come to Boston? You should pay extra to be in great place like this.
Not being sarcastic - totally serious.
Access to ocean, mountains, quick hop to NY for a fix without dealing with the hassles, great schools, lower state income tax than other states (on a percentage basis), history, easy access to Europe from the airports - the list goes on.
I know
I know you aren't being sarcastic.
That's kinda my argument against these tax breaks. It's not like we're Wyoming where there's no industry or reasons to move here. We have plenty.. yet we still give tax breaks to corporations to beg them to move here. Companies move here without tax breaks, why should mega ones get one to be enticed to move here?
And honestly, I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts that when the tax breaks end in 20 years. GE will be bringing good things to life elsewhere. (meaning they will move elsewhere)
Exactly
Right now the GE HQ is in CT, thus paying $0 in taxes. With a move and no tax breaks, they'll pay say $10mil. With tax breaks, they'll pay $6million. $6mil is less than $10mil, yes, but it's more than $0.
800 people aren't going to stress the roads/trains/etc so much that it makes sense to pass on additional tax revenue and exposure.
Boston
Doesn't sound too bad, it how long will it take the state to recoup that $120 million.
The other issue is using these deal sparingly can be a good thing, but there needs to be a process where were not just giving away money to businesses that will make these moves regardless to get access to our educated labor force, transportation, and infrastructure. (Mainly most local developers who will build one way or another).
Welfare Queens
The Boston Globe is saying it's all for 600 Jobs. (Yes, just 600.) So if it was $120 million and you figure a 20 year investment that works out cost of $10k per job per year for 20 years. While the state might make some money in terms of income taxes that seems like a low return on investment.
It's not "for" 600 jobs.
They're moving 600 employees to Boston, they aren't hiring 600 people. Those 600 people will be a significant amount of taxable income to Mass.
Sure
I understand that. For each of these people the state will make $10k less in income tax all things being equal. For non-GE jobs there is no investment loss per job.
Since most of these people will pay more then $10k in taxes it's still a net gain for the state.
It's a question of return on investment. If each of those 600 people pays an average $50k in state taxes, the $40k net seems like a good ROI. If the average amount of state income tax is $11,000 you have a ROI of $1,000 which is not so great, all things being equal.
Landing the GE HQ would be excellent if it was going to a depressed area like Fitchburg, Gardner, etc. But considering it's going into the hottest part of the state anyway, one could reasonably question if the investment could have been used better.
They will pay way more than $11k in taxes
but even if they didn't, $1k is still > than $0k.
ROI
Who is GE displacing? It's not like the space would have gone empty. Look the below example.
GE:
Average State Income Tax: $12,000 (Mostly high paying Jobs)
Cost of Investment: $10,000 (High cost to bring them to MA)
Total State ROI: $2,000
Company B:
Average State Income Tax: $6,000 (Middle Class Jobs)
Cost of Investment: $0 (No cost to bring them to MA)
Total State ROI: $6,000
In the above hypothetical the state makes an additional $4k by letting "The Market" choose who moves in.
I don't think the money's that important
Don't get me wrong. A dollar is a dollar.
While I don't agree with these tax breaks - and was dead serious above, I think there is a strategic advantage to having a corporate headquarters for a company like GE in Boston.
We've been kind of known for losing HQs over the last decade or two. I think the goal is to try and bring a few people back by showing we can woo a big company like GE.
In that sense this is a moronic tactical move, but hopefully make more sense from a strategic perspective. Only time will tell.
Maybe GE can sponsor first night or July 4th fireworks? don't know about bringing good things to life, but that's bringing life to good things!
Gee I don't know Stevil
Maybe it's because most of the big players tax breaks ended and we weren't going to give them anymore. Maybe that's why they've left.
And who's to say in 20 years GE will be bringing good things to life in another state once their tax breaks end also.
Just saying...
Perhaps
But most of the HQs haven't moved. They've been acquired by out of state or out of country firms - then they relocated their execs.
tell that
to my friends in Putnam and Fidelity that had to relocate to New Hampshire...........
Sure the HQ may have not moved but the jobs certainly did after the tax breaks ended.
Oh I agree
Plus our friends at State Street that seem to hire and fire thousands just for sport.
Maybe GE can sponsor first
Mabye we can finally agree that this city no longer needs the outdated "traditions" of First Bight or 4th of July fireworks instead of trying to extort "contributions" from private firms to keep this nonsense going.
Worry, Work, Consume, Die
Hey, 500,000 people enjoying the fireworks - Roadman says get the hell back to work!
Also, those 600 good jobs
Also, those 600 good jobs will have multiplier effect where each job creates several others. After all, the 600 new MA employees will increase work for doctors, nurses, restaurant works, real estate brokers, etc in Boston area and who will pay more taxes as well. In addition, all these new employees will be buying houses and paying real estate taxes, spending money and paying sales tax. In this deal, $120M tax credit over 20 years is peanuts.
Not to mention
groundskeepers, nannies, and Globe delivery people.
I should learn how to read
Thanks, I've added that to the original post.
mbta and Boston's productivity
when they find out that 50% of their workforce is unable to reliably show up to work on time due to "signal and track" problems, maybe they will realize that these tax savings came with a hidden productivity killer, known as the mbta.
GE and the T
well, it might not be likely, but perhaps when Jeff Immelt assumes his chair at the Massachusetts Competitive Partnership (the "New Vault"), maybe that finally tips the scales for them deciding that their big signature project will be fixing the MBTA.
I know that people will snipe at this notion, but really, is this any less likely than the T being fixed any other way?
Maybe GE will be inspired by
Maybe GE will be inspired by the woes of the T and get into the rolling stock business. They got the dough , they shed some divisions of their business, There must be some room left over in the barren for a manufacturing shed . Maybe even venture into RDC cars along with trolleys and subway trains. American made, so they dont have to go through the machinations of an assembly staging area, Direct sales , rail to rail. Massport got a spur down there, Upon further inspection its not that far fetched; Fun Facts :
1892 General Electric created by merger of Edison General Electric Co. and the Thomson-Houston Co. of Lynn, Massachusetts
In 1888 Thomson-Houston supplied the Lynn & Boston Street Railway with the generation and propulsion equipment for the Highland Circuit in Lynn,[2] the first electric streetcar in Massachusetts.
GE Transportation is the largest producer of diesel-electric locomotives for both freight and passenger applications in North America, believed to hold up to a 70% market share.[4] It also produces related products, such as railroad signaling equipment, and parts for locomotives and railroad cars, as well as providing repair services for GE and other locomotives.
All of above fished from Wiki
Fixed that for you
cybah:
How about, Gotta love politicians that hand out welfare to large corporations.
Don't put this on GE. It is GE's corporate responsibility to get whatever breaks they can get. They would be failing their owners/stockholders if they didn't ask. All they're doing is asking. This is a negotiation. You can make a lowball offer on a house - that doesn't mean they have to accept it.
No
They begged for it. CT tried to impose some new taxes on GE and other larger CT companies (which was eventually reversed once GE said they were leaving). So GE entertained the idea of leaving, which turned into "GE is barking to leave, which state will give us the largest tax breaks and we'll move there"
It's all about who can give the largest breaks and how they can avoid paying taxes. While I agree the politicians are part to blame, I also blame the corporations for being pigs at the troth. It's equally between the two.
Are you F*ing serious?
It is 100% the politicians - they don't have to give squat to anybody.
Blaming the tax breaks on the company is just being a whiner and not assessing blame to those who deserve it.
Does a good parent give their kid everything they ask for? No. A parent has to say "no" - about a billion times a day.
Good luck to you when you have to buy a house or a car.
"How much are you asking? OK sure, I'd love to pay way more than I have to simply because you're asking that much."
Are you fucking kidding me?
No I am not
Sorry I believe the fault lies with BOTH. The companies who seek them and the politicians who give them. GE's track record isn't exactly a bed of roses either...
But GE wanted to move before the politicians came to the plate with tax breaks.. they were shopping around for bigger tax breaks. Politicians provided.
Like I said, both are equally guilty.
Now!... Public Meeting of Boston City Council
Now!... Public Meeting of Boston City Council
http://www.cityofboston.gov/citycouncil/live.asp
How to make a Stenographic Record of a Public Meeting of Cambridge City Council or Boston City Council
http://qwertysteno.com/Basics/Introduction.php
Shirley?
I'm just glad we have a keen minded business columnist to cover this story.
Oh wait, she did a profile of one of the luckiest people on earth, Jamie McCourt. McCourt as you may recall was married to a guy who tried to run the Dodgers into the ground, only to sell the team at the best possible time in history given the regional sports media bubble so Jamie netted $131m to walk away from the team/marriage. Just so inspirational and I'm sure Linda Henry found it very inspirational.
that article
THAT article was insulting..
I learned something from the McCourt article
I was shocked to learn that Jaime was hosed so badly (I'm sure this is common knowledge, I just don't follow this kind of stuff).
I had the opportunity to sit in on meetings with both McCourts when I was working on South Boston development issues in the late 90s (see my other fiery post elsewhere in this thread). It certainly seemed to me like Jaime was calling the shots in those days - certainly people were more afraid of her than Frank.
I have no idea when that turned around (or if it was just a ploy/facade the whole time), but I can see why she's on a something of a mission and I think the message is commendable.
What's mission again?
Luck is everything? They could not have run the Dodgers any more poorly but they both made out like bandits due to fortunate market timing. They were essentially handed the team due to the internal politics of baseball team sales so even that wasn't some awesome free market achievement.
Clearly, you just have it in for me today.
The mission to tell the next generation of spouses (and she seems be focused on women) to watch their flanks.
Perhaps you might read the article again, or at least try to disagree without being so disagreeable tomorrow.
Disclosure
I didn't read it because Leung is not an good or interesting columnist and McCourt isn't of interest from a business perspective. Spouse fails to get spectacular windfall when divorcing husband isn't a business story, sorry. She could have done better in the divorce, she's still set for life due to largely market forces beyond her control or intent.
BTW, I'm truly sorry I hurt your feelings apparently when responding to a post which included this section:
"Well, Haters? Well? Ready to STFU and express at least some thanks that some people around here had vision? Ready to maybe defer to some of those people again on some more big thinking (major public transit improvements)?!?"
But please, do tell me more about civil discourse in online comment threads.
Shirley is frothing with glee today.
It's better than the Olympics!!!!!
https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2016/01/13/winning-better-than-olym...
$140M
"Boston may offer $GE as much as $20m in tax relief over 20 years; state package could be valued as high as $120m"
https://twitter.com/BostonGlobe/status/687317756727955456
2014 revenue was just north
2014 revenue was just north of $140 billion. Net profit only $15 billion though, so.....
If history is any guide, GE
If history is any guide, GE has a track record of being a bad corporate citizen.
The company totally wrecked the Hudson and Housatonic Rivers. I'd be wary of what they might do to Fort Point Channel and Boston Harbor.
Except that we're aren't talking
about manufacturing plants here.
Yes
I'm sure all the vice presidents and assistant vice presidents will be dumping toxic chemicals in Ft Point. It's amazing to me people can comment on things they know absolutely nothing about and don't even bother to read the article before posting here.
No, the will bring their own brand
of toxicity.
I'm left with a mental image
I'm left with a mental image of a bunch of guys in $4000 suits literally crapping directly into the Harbor. Thanks!
Poly Chlorinated Buttocks
Who doesn't like a fresh breeze through the pinstripes?
You're new to the Internet,
You're new to the Internet, aren't you.
I used to work at the EPA.
I used to work at the EPA. Superfund sites in the file room were organized by the company responsible for the pollution. Except for GE. They had their own file room because they caused such massive amounts of damage all over New England. So that is the type of company we are giving millions in corporate welfare to.
It probably doesn't come down
It probably doesn't come down to tax breaks. For a company that earns $15 billion every year, $140 million is not a lot. If your salary is $80,000 a year, would you relocate to save $800?
I think what it boils down to is whether the executives would rather live in Hartford, or relocate to Boston.
Fairfield
GE is in Fairfield, not Hartford.
"not a lot"
But they still don't want to pay it, because like all similar corporate welfare queens, they're not into paying their fair share.
Ha! Corporate welfare for
corporate executives. It always amazes me that some folks give an easy bash to folks living in poverty getting assistance to help with food and shelter but when it comes to this...not so much. These guys are making huge amounts of money in salaries, et. al., and we give 'em tax breaks to move, let me get this, their corporate headquarters (which, according to the article, will employ hundreds of folk's making huge salaries to be corporate) to one of the up and coming areas of Boston. Now, I could see if, say, they want to actually manufacture something here (i.e. blue collar jobs) and hire folks to do that, but, wait, oh, darn:
"But GE is also closing down a valve factory in Avon — eliminating roughly 300 local, largely blue-collar jobs — and shifting the work that’s done there to a new plant in Florida."
GE does not bring good things to light.
Yes
Because the only "good" jobs are manufacturing jobs.
yup agreed
Agreed. There's never any outrage about this sort of stuff. But stand behind someone at the supermarket with an iPhone and WIC checks and OMG THE WORLD IS ENDING SOMETHING MUST BE DONE THEY ARE FLEECING THE SYSTEM
Let's put this into prospective... 247/mo in food stamps vs 130Million over 20 years (which works out to be 541,666/mo) Yet people are upset over a piddly $247 dollars? Where's your outrage now?
No more good things
They changed their slogan to "Imagination at Work" several years ago, just before they bought the company I was working for. We were all disappointed in the slogan change, largely because of it's total lack of traction with the public and the fact that when we'd correct our friends and loved ones we'd get a big "Huh?" in response.
We were also really disappointed when they laid us all off a few years later, just as the economy was tanking.
GE confirms move to South Boston waterfront
I've updated the original post.
2016 Boston City Council Committees
2016 Boston City Council Committees
https://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/40urpp/2016_committees_of_bosto...
Unfortunately, Former Council President Flaherty continues as Chair of Government Operations Committee, the Councilor less likely to improve bad Records Management practices at Boston City Council.
Weird coincidence
GE owns NBC (Hi, Jack Donaghy!).
NBC wants to leave WHDH/Boston.
GE wants to move to Boston.
Not irony...just weird.
No, GE sold NBC several years ago
Comcast owns NBC now.
Not any more
GE sold NBC/Universal to Comcast back in 2013.
*conspiracy theory goes poof*
Ah
I hadn't realized Comcast finally finished off the other half of NBC from GE. Until 2013, GE still owned 49%.
Remember
it's Kabletown now.
Check your couch.
G.E.
david letterman loved working for them!
So didn't Ronald Reagan (
So didn't Ronald Reagan ( General Electric Theater https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Electric_Theater )
Will Owen be bringing
Will Owen be bringing Grandpappy's hammer?
Over-enthusiastic press release, part 1
Hokay, it turns out that the financial aid the city will give "eligible" GE employees for housing is not, in fact, a real incentive offered to GE, but an existing city program available to everybody seeking to buy their first primary residence in Boston, in which the city will provide a 0% loan towards the purchase of a house, condo or triple decker - and then forgive the loan completely if the purchaser stays there for ten years. It's available to anybody who makes no more than 120% of the city's average median income, who has no more than $75,000 in household assetts and who takes classes on home buying and ownership.
So, of course, why was this even mentioned in the mayor's press release? Maybe this is in line with other "incentives" the city could offer GE, including free library cards for all employees, access to all city parks and a chance for their children to enroll for free in Boston public schools.
Wait a minute; a first time
Wait a minute; a first time home buyer can get a 0% loan from the city and only have to pay it for 10 yrs with the remaining balance written off?
Is this correct?
For 3-5% of your down payment, yes
Read the site. You basically have to be unable to afford a place on your own and the city will just help cover enough of the down payment to get you in the house, but the rest is still up to you and you need immaculate credit. Basically, if you would have had no problem buying a house in Nebraska, but you need to live in Boston for the next 10 years, they'll help you out a little bit.
That ought to be a big help
For people moving from rustic Fairfield to the teeming metropolisn't
Move
Oh look, some clever snark from a tut-tutter who loves to shake a finger about how we're not "world class" enough. It must really grind your gears to constantly have to deal with people that you can't emotionally manipulate. If you find "the teeming metropolisn't" doesn't live up to your elevated culture-critic standards, you should feel free to move. Otherwise, stop being so presumptuous.
It's okay
I can make my comment easier to understand, lbb.
Average home price, Fairfield: 521,800
Average home price, Boston: 477,100
(per Zillow)
Fairfield isn't Nebraska, and Boston isn't New York. Relocated GE workers from Fairfield are unlikely to take advantage of the special mortgage deal discussed here.
Did that help?
Try again
Sorry, my comment was in reference to your childish snark, not to average home prices. Try again.
on that note
Boston Magazine reports that GE has, historically, been very naughty with regards to taxes:
Yeah, let's give 'em some tax breaks and find 'em some houses.
Nor are they very good with
Nor are they very good with cleaning up their messes. They are contesting the latest EPA plan to clean the Housatonic River, which they polluted, which may not be in Boston but we pay for it out here. Those decision makers are moving here.
Is that illegal?
So, of course they've been prosecuted for their wrongdoings. That's right, they haven't done anything illegal tax-wise. Tax avoidance is something everybody does - or should do. When they start evading taxes (and maybe they are, that's up to the lawyers), then you'll have a point.
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
You know what, I'm gonna expose myself as lefty socialist scum, but to hell with it: if you avoid paying your taxes, you are a jerk. Taxes, in theory, are what allow the government to govern, to maintain infrastructure, to provide services to its citizens. Are there better ways to use the taxes that are collected? I'm sure. Should a huge corporation like GE hide billions of dollars so it can avoid paying its fair share in taxes? I certainly don't think so.
Lots of things aren't illegal that should be, things that are legal shouldn't be, etc., etc. A more perfect union, as we like to think of ourselves, should constantly work to provide the greatest good to the greatest number of its people. Permitting corporations to shelter billions of dollars' worth of taxes, due to some technicality or loophole or whatever, is not good for people. It is good for people who already have plenty of money, thanks very much.
Tax avoidance
Let's get some definitions down. "Tax avoidance" means paying every bit of tax you legally owe - and no more. Not to be confused with tax evasion. I'm guessing you're already aware of this, but it didn't seem like it.
For a lowlife like myself, there is very little (none?) opportunity to cheat on taxes, and I don't do it. I take all the available deductions (avoiding taxes) and pay what I owe. Some say "One man's deduction is another man's loophole", and well, so be it. That's a whole other discussion. Again, my taxes are so simple.
When it comes to big corporations, that's a whole different world. It becomes a big battle where corporate lawyers make millions, fighting the IRS over interpretations of the tax law. And that's what it is - interpretation. You or I or anybody else here knows nothing when it comes to this stuff. So when somebody like you or Bernie say some corporation is sheltering billions of dollars thru some loophole, I say change the fucking tax law, because when it comes down to it, it's what the law says and for the lawyers to battle over. Yeah, it sucks sometimes, but don't expect some corporation to pay billions in taxes if they legally don't have to.
I wonder how many people here pay MA sales tax on mail order items that weren't taxed when ordered.
Bernie and I agree
You're correct: I don't like that tax avoidance is legal while tax evasion is illegal. Changing tax laws so that these things can't happen is vitally important. For individuals, it's unlikely to be that pervasive (or expensive) as a problem; for corporations, it's a massive problem.
Anyway, #feeltheBern.
Hypocrisy?
Murph, I hope I can't go back through your post history and find a single comment where you complained about the state the MBTA is in...
See above
n/t
GE is a great company that
GE is a great company that cares about it's impact to the community! If anybody needs a reminder of how great GE is, take a trip to the bustling city of Lynn or maybe a swim in Housatonic River!
One question
How the hell does Mayuh Mahty think all these people are going to get to and from work in that area?
Or is GE going to build a monorail system just for its employees?
They already have a private T station
They have a private stop on the commuter rail. Any other business have this?
Lynn is not South Boston Waterfront
Just so you know.
And the River Works plant
is a shadow of its former self.
Offhand, I don't know of any
Offhand, I don't know of any in MA, but I assume others existed and wouldn't be surprised if one or two still exist.
I have seen it in other places.
In Rahway, NJ - there used to be a Merck station. Closed in 1993. I thought it was between Avenel Station (in North Woodbridge) and Rahway Station, but I looked it up - turns out it was in North Rahway, between Rahway and Elizabeth Stations.
In Garden City, NY - Country-Life Press Station on the LIRR was built to serve the Doubleday facility there (but has been a publicly-accessible station for decades).
They are going to take the
They are going to take the Mattapan trolleys and run a dedicated line from South Station through the Post Office terminal, down A street , over to the smart zone.
Did we "outbid" the other contenders?
Or did GE decide to come here _despite_ other places offering bigger "incentives"?
Inquiring minds want to know...
More office space and
More office space and corporate relocation & development in the Seaport area. Hmmm....
Give it to me straight, folks. I'm a World-Class City (tm) world-class kind of guy, and I can shoulder all sorts of challenges & adversity. I just need someone to say it out loud for me...
My $9, all-day, just barely paved, park my car and walk over to High Street is never coming back, is it?
I'd like a little property
I'd like a little property tax relief. Help me out with my mortgage payments there Marty. I can't believe I actually held signs for him. He's a huge disappointment. This city is gone. Another crappy deal for the people who made this city. Big business, Gold--Lifelong residents, Brick.
You do get property-tax relief
Assuming you actually live in Boston in a house that's your primary residence, then every year you're eligible for a property-tax break. There may be plenty of reasons to criticize the GE deals, but, come on, let's not get ridiculous here.
"Property tax relief"
1. Property tax != mortgage payments, fyi, but...
2. ...both are tax deductions, and that is a substantial amount of "relief".
Not taxing taxes isn't "relief"
It is simply that you cannot be taxed on money that you paid in taxes.
Your landlord doesn't pay taxes on taxes either.
Infrastructure
800 more people in the seaport. Any word on how GE intends to explain to its employees about the gridlock to overwhelms the seaport during rush hour?
Not to mention
How very wonderful and reliable that the MBTA is as an alternative?
I'm guessing they'll want
I'm guessing they'll want their employees to walk to work through the silver line tunnels since the silver line busses are already pretty full at rush hour.
More harbor ferries!
More harbor ferries!
In other big GE news, China’s
In other big GE news, China’s Haier buying GE appliance for $5.4 billion
"BEIJING (AP) — Haier Group, the world’s biggest home appliance maker, is buying General Electric Co.’s appliance business for $5.4 billion to expand its U.S. and global presence.
The acquisition announced Friday comes as Haier tries to transform itself into a premium brand. GE is shifting emphasis from traditional businesses such as appliances, in which it has been a prominent presence for more than a century, to higher-technology areas such as medical equipment and clean energy.''
https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2016/01/15/china-haier-buying-appli...
They are freeing up funds all over the place, all we need now is Warren Buffett to join in..........