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Meanwhile...
...Downtown Crossing and the Park Street area get more and more disgusting, dirty, and dangerous. Same holds true for Copley Square. These are major tourist attractions, and I'm embarrassed by how we're presenting ourselves to visitors. It seems like the city has just given up on these areas, and helping the homeless and/or addicted populations that congregate there, and controlling all the criminal activity that thrives in squalor. The situation in Boston seems to be deteriorating, and reminding me more and more of pre-Disney Times Square.
Really?
What are you going on about? Downtown Crossing is light years ahead from where it used to be even 10 years ago. You must have a very low tolerance for "crime" and "squalor". Guessing you weren't around for the 80s, 90s, or even 00s before there was any development there.
I've been in Boston since 1979.
You may be right about crime statistics -- I'd be interested to see an analysis by someone a lot more qualified than I am to assess and compare. But in terms of perception, I stand by my opinion. Take a stroll around Park Street/Downtown Crossing or Copley Square around 6:30 AM, or 9:00 PM, or really any time of day, and tell me how proud you are of the views.
People may be looking at
People may be looking at different aspects. In terms of addicts, etc, in the area, it is definitely worse than before. However, I don't see that as a DTX issue, nor a Boston issue--that's a much bigger, national issue occurring everywhere. On Boylston, St Francis House (I think) is still a methadone clinic (a last relic of the Combat Zone), and on Tremont, both St Paul and Park St churches are helping people in need, so you are going to have addicts congregating in that area getting help.
In terms of general garbage/filth and the retail/storefront "atmosphere"--I used to work on Bromfield in the 90's, and I find it much better than before, and will likely be even better once Millennium Tower is actually completed and cleaned-up. Not that it’s anything great, but even Winter St is starting to look a bit less “cheeseball” (for lack of a better term) with new stuff slowly moving in. I've lived in some dubious places in Boston/NYC/Montreal, so I could be jaded, but to me, any city is going to have some dubious people walking around, even in Manhattan’s Upper West/East Sides.
agreed, bg
The Long Island shelter closing put a lot of addicts into Downtown Crossing, but most of the neighborhood is in better shape than it was.
DTX is far worse than it used to be
"Downtown Crossing is light years ahead from where it used to be even 10 years ago. You must have a very low tolerance for "crime" and "squalor". Guessing you weren't around for the 80s, 90s, or even 00s before there was any development there."
I myself am a native Bostonian and I can attest that DTX is far, far worse now than it was 10 years ago and the development there has not helped a bit. The people living in the luxury buildings seem to exist in their own vacuum. I wonder how they come and go, especially at night. It must be quite a culture shock for them. The strung out, drug addicted population is far larger than it has been previously. I say this as a statement of fact, not as a judgement against said population.
More drugs, less of other issues
That's my perception at any rate. In nearly 30 years of observing DTX, I think it overall is cleaner (as in less physical trash, rats, etc.). I also see less prostitution and thuggery. But there is definitely more drug activity than there once was. I wonder, to be honest, whether the crack down on assault has left the place more inviting to people living on the edge. It would be interesting to get some actual statistics to inform this conversation. I offer my anecdotal observation, but it doesn't really tell us much for certain.
I can't speak for Copley
But I can speak for DTX. I've worked in and around DTX for 10 years and it has gotten worse. Yeah we have more stores and more activity, but the drug use and crackheads I see are 10x worse than what they were when I moved here in 1999.
I walk from DTX station to my office on high street every morning at 730 and the amount of homeless and crackheads I see in that small walk is amazing. Lunch time is even worse, you cannot walk 10 feet without being asked for money.
After dark.. forget it. As a big burly guy, even I'm a bit scared to walk after dark. Its like a scene from nigh of the living dead with all the zoned out opiate addicts around.
But between the opiate crisis, long island shelter shutdown, other shelters being full, I don't see this problem fixed any time soon without some big time enforcement. Something I don't think the city is willing to do.
no
I haven't noticed this at all. I walk all the time in the area after 9PM, and it's no worse than any other high-traffic area. It's also MUCH more safe than it was 20 years ago. Hell, I got mugged at Tremont at Boylston in 2006, when there was a lot more drug activity in the area, the peak of it being around 2000 when there were still dealers posted up along Charles Street. That 7-Eleven area (now Panera) was like a bazaar for crack.
There's certainly some, as some may classify, "undesirables" in the area, but nowhere near where it was around the...wait for it... new millennium. I think in general the perception changes when you've grown less accepting of their existence in the area, combined with a more desperate group of homeless addicts. The heroin epidemic hasn't created a new batch of these unwanted people in the area, and plopped them on top of what was already there, rather the demographic has shifted.
I wouldn't think the data for crime and homelessness really back up the gut feel of many. If I had to guess, there are a few factors that contribute:
1. Long Island shuttering;
2. The demographic of the addict changing: heroin addicts are far more desperate to get their next fix as unlike crack, there is also a strong physical sickness the addict will feel once withdrawals kick in;
3. With the economic issues of the past decade, people are perhaps less likely to give a quarter or dollar, leading to more desperate homeless persons;
4. With the economic system shifting away from consumers carrying cash, people are less likely to even have a dollar in their pocket to spare.
And so on. Then again, I could be totally wrong with my own gut feel. Not in a solipsist sense, but at the end of the day the only truths that matter are what others see.
I disagree
I disagree. I am downtown all the time.. day or night. I work down there. I also work early in the morning and sometimes late at night. I do see the decline of this area.
I really am surprised you don't see it. Actually either you don't, or you're blind to it. I'm sorry, in my opinion it has gotten worse in the past 15 or so years. Things now are alot more blatant now. Years before people would hide their illegal activity, now it's do e right out in the open. I've seen people drug deal, shoot up drugs, and other crap. Crackheads aside, there's alot more 'bums' and alot more people asking for change. A lot of stuff you didn't see 15 or so years ago. Yeah it existed, I am not doubting that but it has gotten worse. I used to not feel unsafe after 8pm in DTX, now.. I very quickly walk to my destination.
I guess its a matter of perception and what you see and choose to ignore. I tend to not to ignore things because I've been mugged before so I am always alert.
I just disagree, DTX has gotten worse.
perhaps
" I've been mugged before so I am always alert."
Is it possible that you're noticing a lot more because you're a lot more alert due to that incident?
Not that it's any of my business, I'm just curious.
probably
Probably.. but just more observant in general.
Agreed
And most of these people come from outside the city, many from outer suburbs, N.H., ME, R.I., even down the east coast. Boston (Cambridge,etc.) is a magnet.
As for economics; the economy in this country is very stilted, many parts of the country are doing very poorly, and it's really only doing well (if you can call it that; wages are not keeping up with the real cost of living and the real inflation rate, and haven't since the early 70s) in a handful of major cities / metro areas. A lot of the poverty has shifted into less desirable suburbs and surrounding small cities that have never recovered from our de-industrialization and globalization. Cities like Boston (I include places like Brookline, Cambridge,Somerville,etc.) have clearly become far more socioeconomically stratified than at any time in recent memory, certainly in my lifetime.
I don't know, Cybah...
I have been mugged twice, in the city, but not at downtown crossing. I, too, walk up High Street some mornings (before 8:00am) and am down there around 6:00pm. I have yet to see folks shooting up but knowing what I know about the opioid crisis, it does not surprise me. I see homeless sleeping and/or hanging out but have never been approached (that happens more in South Station). I worked down in the area in the 1980s and again in the 1990s and found it more grubby and shady. Would I walk through there around 8:00pm.? Sure.
Honest question
For an area that was once dubbed the "Combat Zone", how much worse could it have possibly gotten? I know that label is a bit contentious with some people (though authors like Nick Flynn seem to give it some legitimacy), but I'm asking from a place of honest ignorance in that regard.
I'll add, I realize that the opioid epidemic we've seen growing over the past 5-10-15 or however many years changes the dynamic, but the area still seems to be a bit embattled over the course of that history
I always assumed that the LI shelter
Bused people back into Boston for the day. Am I wrong on this? I thought the standard "can't stay in the shelter during the day" rule applied, and the homeless were just shipped back at nightfall. Why is everyone blaming homeless people in DTX on the shelter closing?
You aren't wrong
Long Island Shelter was closed to most guests during the day, and there was indeed a bus that shuttled them back and forth for over night services.
More empty storefronts
I am in DTX crossing fairly infrequently so I haven't had the chance to observe much of what you are talking about. But I have noticed that there just seems to be more empty store fronts. I don't know which came first the "undesireables" or the empty store fronts. Primark and Roche brothers are good additions, but it seems as if they are going against the grain.
Just think how the people who moved into Winter Place might be doing.
I walk through the square every morning...
...around 6:00 AM, and there are always one or two people swaddled in sleeping bags or blankets on the stone benches surrounding the library at that hour, and lots of trash, empty bottles, etc., left behind from the night's revelries. Last week, in the middle of the afternoon, there were two people sleeping on the benches inside the Copley T station. The list goes on and on.
It's definitely getting worse, and there's no increase in enforcement that I can see. And again, this is Copley Square, which is a huge tourist attraction (sadly, even more so since the bombing). I can only imagine what these visitors tell the folks back home about Boston.
My observation
The real tourists can't get enough of the Quincy Market crap -- at least that's what people tell me when I'm in the sticks outside of the Northeast and mention I'm from Boston. They also proceed to say "wicked" (and laugh) and maybe recite the "Park the car" line.
That's not new
I remember waiting for the 39 in front of the library on Dartmouth Street (meaning back when the 39 didn't go to Back Bay and when Dartmouth Street was a 2 way street there) in the late 80s and having to deal with people camping out, drunks, and the broken glass. Oh, the broken glass. It was everywhere in the morning.
I'd say that anyone who remembers downtown and Copley from the late 80s knows that things were much worse then.
I have lived here about 12
I have lived here about 12 years now and as a female person, I can say that I definitely feel less safe in the DTX/Park st area than I used to, even just 5 years ago. I'm not naive, I know there has always been that element in the area, but it has grown in size and become more aggressive. Just the other week I made the mistake of briefly making eye contact with someone who was asking for money down there and he then followed me for a few blocks screaming and cursing at me when I didn't give him anything. And this was in the middle of the day. Had to duck into the T to get away even though that's not where I was going. It used to be fine just passing through but now I actively avoid this area. Copley, on the other hand seems about the same as it always has.
Drug Dealing
out in the open, that attracts packs of addicts, has become the new normal in Copley Square. They pool their spare change, get high and urinate and defecate in each and every corner. Last year, I watch a woman lift her skirt at the curb and just let it go. It’s not dog poop we’re on the lookout for here. It amazing me how brazen the dealers and junkies are. I’ve called city hall and the BPD many times and no one seems to care to do anything about it.
Totally embarrassing
Can you imagine how embarrassing it would be to be living in Millennium Place when the Millennium Tower is right there and all your neighbors have moved there? I wouldn't be able to go out for coffee for fear of running into somebody I knew.
Another Caffè Nero is moving
Another Caffè Nero is moving into Millennium Tower too (they also announced that the anchor retailer will be Old Navy). There is already a Nero in Millennium Place, so now they will also be just over a block down in Millennium Tower, I guess trying to out-Starbucks Starbucks (who is also re-building their Starbucks on Winter). Although, that existing Nero is always 100% full every time I walk by.
In that small stretch of Washington St from Beach St (Jaho Coffee) to School St, there are now a ton of cafés/coffee places. A George Howell Coffee is also moving into the Godfrey Hotel soon, which will crowd things even more--although I'm still glad to see a George Howell place coming back into Boston (there's already one in the Boston Public Market).
ooo an old navy in downtown
ooo an old navy in downtown crossing nice!
Old Navy
Old Navy merchandise is absolute junk. They are also sized wrong. The times I have bought something there it is always far smaller than the size marked. I've only ever been to the Old Navy at Cambridgeside Galleria, but I assume if you've seen one Old Navy you've seen them all.
I gave up on Old Navy years
I gave up on Old Navy years ago when I walked in wearing a pair of their jeans, took the exact same size and style down from a shelf, and found in the dressing room that it was 6 inches too long and laughably too small at the waist.
It has to do with the way they're cut. One pair out of a batch will be sized correctly, but the stack of denim gets pushed askew by the blade as it cuts down, leading to totally unreliable products that all get slapped with the same label.
So most of the batch is unwearable, but at least it's cheap!
clientele
It's all about clientele. Look at who is at Cafe Nero and who enters and leaves (and where they come from). A good portion of the clientele for Nero comes from that building. They literally never leave the building to get coffee. So makes sense why are opening another location inside a building where their clientele is moving too so they don't have to leave that building too.
TOO MUCH COFFEE
We don't need another coffee shop in that area. What about the locally owned businesses? This is an outrage!
Seriously? An outrage?
Seriously? An outrage?
See
Southie Starbucks
Jaho Coffee, Boston Common
Jaho Coffee, Boston Common Coffee, George Howell Coffee, and yes--the DDs--are all local.
In any case, DTX as a place for local retailers is of a bygone era. Today's Boston retail has generally shifted to 1) DTX for disposable/cheap international retailers, 2) Prudential/Copley (and along the Public Garden) for higher-end international retailers, and 3) Newbury St/Charles St (and more sporadicly, the South End) for local retailers. Newbury has a bit too many chains today, and it would be nice to have the city push incentives to make Newbury more locally-centric. But wanting local retailers in DTX is a lost cause--the people going there to shop today aren't looking for that, and are looking for cheap/disposable (H&M, Primark, Forever 21, Old Navy, TJMaxx/Marshalls, etc). Local energy should be focused on Newbury/Charles/South End, which are better environments for that.
So in a building that will
So in a building that will house people who will live in condos averaging what? two million dollars? the best they can come up with is Old Navy? Oh well, I guess it would fit in nicely with the other down market retailers such as Payless, Gap Outlet, Marshalls.
When did George Howell get
When did George Howell get back into the retail end of the business. I remember when he owned the Coffee Connection chain of shops but sold out to Starbucks in the 90s. He then concentrated on the wholesale business. I know that Sip Cafe at Post Office Square sells his coffee.
#thoughtsandprayers
Thoughts and prayers go out to these folks as they disrupt their lives for 10 minutes to hire people to move their possessions from one swanky downtown tower to another.
The trickle down effect is
The trickle down effect is working. Now everyday middle class folks can buy the vacated condos in Millennium place, right???
I mean...
this is obviously meant as hyperbole, and the condos in Millenium Place are still crazy-expensive, but if the super-rich folks are moving to Millenium Tower, then yeah, Millenium Place units probably aren't going to sell for as much as they did a couple of years ago, unless we've had an influx of super-rich folk in that same time. And when they put up Millenium Spire in 2019, and then Millenium Minaret in 2023, the same thing is going to happen. I don't want to see development restricted to luxury units, but if you keep building the ne plus ultra of luxury condos, then you're at least creating more inventory and creating downward pressure on existing rents/housing prices.
At any rate, it's better than the last 30 years of "we won't build anything anywhere" that's led to a housing crunch across most of the city.
BRB
(BRB, off to register milleniumminaret.com. If I can't sell it to the developers, then that's what I'll call my alt-metal band.)
Not that I could afford it...
but after seeing the movie "High-rise" this weekend, I have no desire to live in Millennium Tower!
Interesting movie - I recommend.
Have not seen the movie
I haven't seen the movie, but in general I have no desire to live above, say, the 8th floor of any building - I even request a room on a lower floor when staying in hotels. Want to be able to evacuate quickly if necessary.
there sure are a lot of people here
that take another person's drug addicted, misery filled existence, and decide its a personal affront.
gawsh, it must be DEVASTATING to have to see somebody go through the motions of life and have zero hope. truly, i sympathize with you.
In the 80s dealers used to
In the 80s dealers used to own the Common. They would deal at the Parkman bandstand and the statue on the hill. Guys used to set up games of 3 card monte on the main path, 5 games at a time on cardboard tables. If the cops came they would just grab and run. At some point they were pushed out of there and would go no further than DTX, where they had large crowds to blend in with. All of these places are much safer than they were 10-30 years ago (my frame of reference). If you walk these streets now and feel intimidated by all the college kids who live there now that's on you.