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It wouldn't be a proper Boston snowstorm without a space-saver threat
By adamg on Mon, 01/09/2017 - 11:37am
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Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer Hot Take
I may not understand these cars, shovels, space savers, and twitter things, but by golly this seems like a crystal clear threat of physical violence to me.
You may tell your friends and family the neighborhood has changed a lot, but the good old progeny of the You Know Where I Stand crowd still rear their head from time to time, don't they?
By the way, perfect catholic school penmanship here. Sister Henrietta would be proud. The young scriber may need some direction in the concept of fee ownership of land versus public land however.
WHAT?
Decipher please
Boston
World
Class
City
I've been to numerous foreign and
domestic 'world class' cities, lived in them, was born in one; if you think shit like this, or worse, doesn't happen in them, you are ignorant and naive.
Where else?
NYC? Chicago?
Oh hell yeah
Never heard of "opposite side of the street parking", I suppose.
Yeah. It's Boston dude.
Yeah. It's Boston dude. Ignorant and naive is kind of our thing. Don't dump on it.
It's not clear what this post
It's not clear what this post even means. It seems like only transplants think in those terms, who moved here in the first place for jobs that they couldn't find in their home states.
People here don't even think in those terms.
Southie Parking
Typical Southie....You can build it up and raise the rent but at the end of the day, it's still Southie.
Ummm then do move to Southie?
Ummm then do move to Southie? No brainer.
Typical...
That I find new comers to be the worst offenders of what was once an honorable system.
The newcomers
are the ones that try to go by the city "rule" of during and up to 48hrs after a snowstorm, while the old-timers tout the "way we used to do things/unwritten rules" over the written ones, at least in Eastie.
Nah, the "new comers" are the
Nah, the "new comers" are the ones that move here from states with abundant parking, whine about it, then leave after a few years.
Statistics please
Statistics please
Selectively asking for statistics.
Selectively asking for statistics. No statistics were originally provided from the post before showing that it was "new comers" who try to follow the rules.
You aren't out there taking a
You aren't out there taking a tally, and wouldn't even know anyway.
No kidding
I'd be willing to bet my last dollar this is immigrant on immigrant harassment. The newbies I meet out and about are generally wannabe harasses.
True
Because a native wouldn't have bothered with a note - he or she would just get out a pocket knife or a trash can.
Insert
"100" emoji here!
Immigrant
Um, what?
Seriously?
.
dupe - please remove
and people like you
Move in and out and bring nothing to the table. No volunteering, voting, checking on neighbors on days like snow storms. Go back to suburbia
Fuck off
You have no idea what "people like him/her" do or don't do.
True, but I wouldn't want to
True, but I wouldn't want to incur the wrath of Stephen Bickerton Senior. We have no idea what he is capable of.
It's been known for a while
It's been known for a while that many of the newer residents don't stay around for long. People who don't stay around for long aren't as invested in the local community and have less desire to get involved in things like volunteering since they will be leaving after a while.
Gee maybe
People who move into the neighborhood feel so unwelcome that they eventually decide to leave. Regardless, you're making rash generalizations based on nothing more than "what's been known for a while". I'm a "newcomer", and was fully intent on helping coach a youth hockey team, as I played in college and really enjoy passing on what I've learned. I wasn't as excited to coach when I read something on the Southie community board posted by a coach complaining about "fucking yuppies".
Say "key" one more time,
Say "key" one more time, muthuhfuckuh!!! I will strike down upon thee with GREAT VENGEANCE and FUUUURRRIOUS ANGER anyone who poisons and destroys my car!!!
feminine handwriting?
I just called my sister and she hasn't moved her car since Friday night because she's parked right out front. her car's not moving until spring.
I Had The Same Impression — Is That Being Sexist?!!
No, it isn't
I am female and that sure looks like a woman's handwriting to me.
So do people think any open spot should be up for grabs?
I don't drive anymore, but when I did I would make sure I put out a space saver, shoveling out those spots is hard work, and the lack of open spots that aren't shoveled were at a premium. I get the law says you have 48 hours, but if there are still no shoveled out spaces besides the one you shoveled, what's wrong with continuing the practice?
I do
It's a public parking spot. You want your car, you shovel your car out. You move your car, you lose any right to that spot until your car is in it again.
Personally, I think Boston DPW and police should troll residential streets and remove all space savers themselves.
It's not that simple to a lot
It's not that simple to a lot of people. Established residents of neighborhoods, and even many newer residents, would feel really awkward about taking a spot right after someone else spent time shoveling out. Someone like you might not care about the couple hours of work neighbors might do shoveling out their spot after a lot of snow.
That's why space savers are tolerated by people who recognize it takes a lot of work to shovel out a car after a big storm, and want to give a couple of days allowance to those that did the work.
This is not a perfect system, but the alternative is no space savers, and fewer people would even bother shoveling, because people like you would just take the spot they cleared.
Those who move into a neighborhood for a few years and intend to leave don't care, because if you are only there for a few years, you are less inclined to care about the work neighbors do shoveling. You are only a short term resident.
This is part of the problem when neighborhoods become more crowded and more transient, too many cars, and not enough people care because they are going to leave after some years.
Established residents of
If that were true, we wouldn't need spacesavers. And before you tell me it's because of the newer residents, keep in mind that there were almost no new residents in Southie 30 years ago, but people used spacesavers then too.
Hell, when I lived in Southie 20 years ago, my immediate neighbor had a handicap placard and there was an HC space right in front of her house. When somebody else (with an HC placard) parked there, she would either bang on the car with her cane or call the cops and demand the car be towed for parking in "her" space.
This idea of space ownership has existed in Southie for a long time. It's nonsense and time for the residents to grow up. Yeah, you've got to shovel out a space. Yeah, it's work. Yeah' there's no guarantee that you'll find a space later. Them's the breaks -- it's part of the deal for your absurdly cheap parking permit.
Times they are a changin'
More like, people who haven't caught on to the fact that using space savers, which might have made sense back in the era of fewer cars, when anyone who wanted a parking space could have one just by shoveling it out, nowadays constitutes hoarding of a scarce resource.
Are they really "public" streets
Why get upset about marking the space because the streets are "public" -but not upset by resident permit parking by neighborhood? Aren't the streets "public"?If I pay all my taxes and registry fees as a city resident why can't I park in spaces in certain neighborhoods? I'm a "resident"!
Not at all the same
If you can't see the difference between a broad class having exclusive use of a space (loading zone, handicap parking, anyone with $1.50/hr, residential permit) and an individual using a piece of broken furniture to claim exclusive use for some arbitrary amount of time, I don't know what to tell you...
except that all western cities have classes of parking, and very few of the ones that get snow allow spacesaving as Boston does.
Since you mentioned it
I am upset by resident parking. Being free, it breeds trouble and whining and all this bad stupidity about "owning" spots. It is a big handout to people with cars that people who don't have cars don't get to enjoy. Where's my free garden plot?
You should have to pay good money to the city for storing your private property. Like $150 a month. Then you can get a numbered spot and have people towed out of it, even! That's still a price break, but it means that you pay for space you use.
Um, because
the city's regulation to only hold a space with space savers for only 48 hours after a snow emergency is lifted?
People think any open spot
People think any open spot should be up for grabs because they are. The streets are not privately owned and there is no actual "48 hour law"; the laws on the books actually don't allow for it at all.
And what's wrong with continuing the practice is that it's asinine that someone might get shanked over something as stupid as a few feet of asphalt that no one actually owns.
No, but it is a city's regulation:
http://www.cityofboston.gov/snow/parking/
It comes down to not having enough parking spots. I understand if you work hard to shovel out a spot, you should be able to keep it as dictated. After that, you are out of luck.
Unfortunately, the 48 hour reg. does not matter to some generally pissed off people who will willingly slash and key your car, regs be damned.
Yes But..
Yes but this is where the city needs to help. Start removing the space savers, ticketing people who do, and when notes like this happen.. have BPD start pressing charges for criminal threatening.
A few people who get hauled into court over this.. even if the charges get dropped.. it should send a message that this stuff would not be tolerated.
Its really going to take someone getting stabbed or even worse, murdered over a parking space for the city (and neighboring towns such as my own) to finally do away with this practice and have a zero tolerance for it.
There have already been
There have already been shootings over space savers. Here is a story from less than a year ago.
http://www.necn.com/news/new-england/1-Person-Shot-in-Dorchester-Section...
Further proof that people who use space savers are lazy, entitled scum.
I agree, but
If the city goes around removing space savers, people who then park in those spots innocently might get targeted on the assumption that *they* removed the space savers to park there. There is no great solution.
Yes however
If people know they can't space save anymore and the savers will be taken away by the city immediately. They shouldn't be doing that... they won't do it. Plus besides, if there are no more space savers.. it goes back to the way parking is done in the other three seasons.. First Come, First Serve.
It would take a winter or so for folks to understand that they can't space save anymore.. and the problem would go away. It just takes heavy enforcement and zero tolerance.
Don't want my taxes going to enforce this
Sorry. Boston resident here, not Chelsea. We have bigger problems.
I don't want the cops or the DPW wasting time or resources on this.
I live in a space saver neighborhood. It's not that big of a deal. You don't think think nasty notes or interactions are taking place over other stuff? Good grief.
As for the shooting, sadly there are way too many young guys starting and settling beefs with guns in that part of Dot. Could have happened over anything, really.
Let's put more resources towards that problem.
Really?
Nice try anon, I don't give a shit. I'm a registered member here, and I've been commenting here alot longer than you have. Go blow it out your hole, OK. However.. here's my rebuttle.
And Chelsea does not? Get your head out of the sand. Shall I take you for a walk around my neighborhood? Yeah it's pretty bad here. We use just as space savers just as much as Boston does, and have the same issues. And if you actually READ my post, I never said anything about Boston or Chelsea, just that the whole space saver rule needs to go away (and this applies to ANY city and town that allows the use of them)
But you're OK with notes like these, and the eventual keying of cars, or fights or even worse. You're OK with that? A crime is a crime is a crime. Doesn't matter if its over a space saver, drugs, fights, or something worse.
And further more, your standpoint is pretty much "let's not go after petty crimes, just the big ones". Go spend a few minutes and read up on the "Broke Windows Theory" and tell me what you think. You'll soon realize, you start with the petty crimes, and many of the bigger crimes go away. This has worked VERY well for NYC, so it's a very proven theory.
But you won't anyways.. you're just here to just jab me and not put much thought into what you're saying. Whatever.
And lemme guess.. you drive and use a space saver yourself?
It is a big deal when criminal threatening happens. Again, I'll repeat what I said above.. you enforce this eventually all the problems associated with space savers.
Settle down, guy
Just stating my opinion as a Boston taxpayer. I think I can still do that even if I'm not registered with Adam.
Oh, and here are a few of things you're wrong about:
I've been reading and posting to UHub for 6 years. Call me crazy but I like my anonymity.
I didn't say I was OK with any crime whatsoever.
To clarify BPD should certainly pursue any criminal complaints. (And it is BPD you were talking about earlier, not CPD. And you made direct reference to Boston's rules, not Chelsea's.) I just don't want them going out of their way over space savers themselves.
I don't use a space saver. Bad guess.
Have a nice day.
Perhaps better snow removal on the part of the city
Better snow removal on the part of the city after a big snowstorm would be a step in the right direction. People wouldn't feel the need to be so territorial about parking spaces in the wintertime. It's absolutely asinine...and ludicrous. Let's hope that nobody gets killed over a parking space, because then it'll really be too late. . I admit that I don't live anywhere in the city of Boston (I live in Somerville.), but it's not worth the lives of other people to continue the space-saving practice. I can, however, understand a handicapped person needing to park near his/her house. That's one thing.
I have a friend who lives in North Dorchester, and she says that afew people have actually been shot over parking spaces. Even though they lived, it's rather scary!
The actual city regulation is
The actual city regulation is that it is completely unlawful to reserve any public parking right of space. This was set by the Haystack rule passed by the council and signed by the mayor a few years ago.
The 48 hour rule is an informal policy, and is meaningless unless PWD actually does a thorough job of collecting space savers after the 48 hour window passes.
Shoveling yesterday wasn't had work
It took me less than 15 minutes to move the light powder from on and around my car.
right?
I initially was using a shovel to do my walk.. I ended up grabbing my push broom and using that. Took all of 20 minutes (vs an hour of shoveling)
What's wrong with the practice is this:
There are people who, the night of the storm, didn't park on the street because they were at work, or out of town, or (most commonly) couldn't find a space, so they put their car in a garage.
After the storm, they come back to their block, and every single space has either a car or a space saver in it.
When are they going to be allowed to park on the street again?
April.
April.
Adorable!
...and charming
People who write these notes
People who write these notes should move to the suburbs and buy a house with a driveway where they are free to shovel it and put a chair down when they leave CAUSE THEY ACTUALLY OWN IT!
I can't believe I'm about to do this
but I'm gonna blame the victim. We know people here are very aggressive and if you move a space saver and park in that spot you are asking for trouble. It's similar to getting robbed when walking through a bad area, alone, at night. Sorry that this happened to you, but you put yourself in harms way.
How about this then
Tomorrow, or next non snow emergency storm, I'll take note of every space saver on my block, and instead of removing them as I normally would, I'll just slash the tires of the car parked in that spot when I get home from work.
You do not own any street parking parking spots
If you want to save a spot, do it on your own property.
Meanwhile, I need a place to grow my weed ... how about a neighborhood grow shed on the public land by the curb in front of your house? I mean, it is public property and all ...
Or you could, like many of us here, buy a place with a driveway and use it if you want the convenience of having your car nearby.
Do you live in Boston?
Do you live in Southie? Then you have no say in what goes on here. And please tell me that you work in the City. If we had to listen to all the morons who pass through, we would be mental cases.
Do you get state funding
Everybody's taxes pay for your streets darling. Everybody's.
Reject all local aid and pave them yourself and contract with local private companies out of pocket only within Southie and you have a point.
Otherwise just shut up about "your" territory, please. The people who work in Boston are paying for your little pisspot.
A lot of people have left Boston
They lived here, but decided that they wanted their own space. Instead of being a dimwit thug, they took their cars with them or waited to get a car.
That's what you do when you want to have your own space. You buy one. You don't get your own space by being a dimwit thug - you just turn into a dimwit thug.
You chose to be a thuggish dimwit when you bought a car and decided that you owned the neighborhood. But, hey, you'll have to move when mommy kicks the bucket or sells out and moves to Florida. Then you'll whine about not being able to afford anything in this neighborhood that you think you own. You'll take your dimwit thug act to another place and get what is coming to you.
Fun Game
Step 1: Remove space savers. Don't park, just leave the spot open.
Step 2: Wait for someone to park in the open spot.
Step 3: Wait until that person's car gets keyed or smashed. The look on their face is SO PRICELESS! HAHAHAHA!
Joking aside, just have the city enforce alternate side of the street parking and all this shit goes away. It's that easy.
I've moved over 20 the past day and a half
I've got a nice stockpile of cones now too.
A cookie for you tough guy.
A cookie for you tough guy. Lol
Nothing tough about it
just being a good neighbor and cleaning trash out of the streets.
That says a lot more about
That says a lot more about you that you would go around putting dirty trash into your house by your own admission because people are using space savers on streets you don't live in than the people using space savers. If it was in the 48 hour rule, than you are letting people park there not knowing there was a space saver there first.
The city (i.e. Walsh) didn't
The city (i.e. Walsh) didn't even enact the alternate-side parking rule in 2015. If there was ever a time for the rule, it was 2015.
Well if someone left this ony
Well if someone left this ony car I would just hang out and see who parks in that spot next and leave he more on their car. Odds are good it would be the original note writer, then stroll by and say something along the lines of "Yeah anonymous tough guy left the same note on my car". The facial expression would give them away and be priceless!
I've honestly just given up.
I've tried to go by the actual rule for years, but so many people in my neighborhood just don't care and do what they want that it forces me into putting one out if I want to have any hope of parking within 2 blocks of my house. It's especially annoying with a Sunday night commitment where I leave at 9 and get home around midnight, as spots would be at a premium even without spacesaver BS.
And that right there....
And that right there is the problem with hoarding. As soon as someone starts hoarding, everyone else feels like they have to start doing it too.
.
Those of us in the downtown neighborhoods shake our heads and chuckle. On any given night, only one fifth of the holders of resident parking permits get to park on the street anywhere in the neighborhood at all, never mind within two blocks of the house.
There's a lot more garages
There's a lot more garages there.
Adorable!
Adorable!
Let me see
I park in a random space, It snows, I shovel it out for a couple hours and you decide to pull into it and you think you deserve that space? Something's wrong with that picture.
I think the space stealer is lucky he got a warning and it wasn't me.
Ok then
if you happen to find yourself walking by my house after snowfall, please don't feel entitled to use the sidewalk I shoveled out. I put the work in, and that is my sidewalk for a while.
OK then
If you take the spot I shoveled out I will put every single flake of snow back in said spot and you can shovel it back out yourself.
Cool
just stay off my sidewalk.
Couple of hours?
Were you using a teaspoon?
Wait - you mean at your golf course it took a couple of hours for them to plow the lot?
Your spouse may believe
you spent 2 hrs shoveling out your car from Saturday's storm, but I am not buying it.
Not I
Not this time. Just making a point. But many times in my 62 years in City. No golf for A WHILE WHICH TOTALLY PISSES ME OFF
How do you get to your golf
How do you get to your golf course by driving only on your neighborhood's roads? Just asking.
Ye Olde Internet Tough Guy!
I just don't get this at all
You got lucky, found a space, and got to park on the street. It snowed. You shoveled out your car. Done. period. Nobody owes you nuffin'.
Someone else didn't get so lucky, didn't find a space, and had to pay to park in a garage. On the other hand, he didn't have to shovel to get his car out. Also done. period. He owes nobody nuffin'.
"Couple of hours"
Let's get this straight. You're shoveling out your car. You're not shoveling the sidewalk, or an entire driveway, or the whole street, you're not doing snow removal for your entire block. And that takes you two hours? Honestly? Then I really feel for you, because you're clearly disabled, and I really feel like there should be some help for people like you. You could get a handicapped placard and then you'd have a lot less competition for spaces.
If you're able-bodied, there is no snowstorm that would require two hours of work to dig your car out from. So please, if you want to gain support for your position, don't resort to absurd lies. Most Bostonians don't even shovel, they just kick aside the minimum amount of snow and then give their a transmission a workout until they can barge their way into the street. If you think that entitles you to have everyone treat that spot as a shrine reserved for your exclusive use, you 're a spoiled entitled brat and you need to grow up.
I don't have a snowblower
I have to clear my car, plus an area 2x the size of my car, plus about 12' of plow tailing to get out of my driveway.
I think this may have taken me two hours after the epic 2013 blizzard. Maybe. I was out for a while, but I also teamed up with neighbors to clear a space for a neighbor who was out of town and arriving late. And did my steps and walks.
Were you born after 2015?
Because that was a couple of hours once a week. This was to completely clear my car to the street with a snow blower and roll it back and forth to make room to use the snow blower on the neighboring spots. Other than that I barely touched my car. My personal philosophy that saving the space for more than an hour is hoarding. I think the main thing is that everyone on the street should use the same system, and no crimes are acceptable.
I'm not for space saving
That being said, there is no difference between putting out a cone or leaving your car parked in the same spot for the whole winter. If the Newbies don't need their vehicles for work get rid f it instead of taking up parking spaces.
Actually there is
Aside from the legal issues....
You're paying registration fees and taxes on one vehicle. When you put out a space saver you are using two vehicles worth of space -- the space marked by the space saver, and wherever else your vehicle is.
Wander around Fort Point
Nighttime space savers, anyone?
People save at home AND save a space close in because its all Southie on the permits.
The privileged whiny behavior is immense!
There are like two people
There are like two people left in Southie that would really follow through with slashing tires...just toss the goddam things and take your chances or drive by and find another spot. This conversation is getting old.
You shoveled out?
You shoveled out? EVERYONE shoveled out. Do people think there's a fleet of garaged vehicles that hits the streets at the most inconvenient time to park?
You don't get a parking space in front of your house for three months while your neighbors who play by the rules walk five blocks to park all winter. The spots should rotate.
Another idea
The city should rent spots. You can only use your spot. There could be "general parking" areas that have a cheaper permit, but you can't space save there.
If you want a spot to be your spot you pay for it. That includes all the people who do have driveways and don't use them.
Not everyone shoveled out.
Some people weren't parked there in the first place and didn't have to shovel out anything.
You mean
The people who paid for a garage overnight? Like you should do in turn if you can't find a space?
The ones with the same rights to the space that you have?
nobody shoveled their car out of this storm.
And since there was no parking emergency, it was not harder than usual to find a spot.
The basic problem is that people in Southie want to reserve their spots all year. They just got a zoning change to selfishly increase parking requirements. When you can rent a parking space in southie for $150, it is stupid to think more parking is required.
Southie has 5 bus routes and 2 subway stations. The rest of world does not owe anyone a spot out front. If you can afford to live in Southie (or Charletown), you can afford to rent a parking spot for your car.
The basic problem is that
The basic problem is that there are two problems part of a vicious cycle. People want to reserve their spots all year, which exacerbates scarcity, so anyone else who wants a spot must use a space saver to have any chance of finding a parking space.
Either nobody can use a space saver, or everyone uses a space saver. The middle ground is not sustainable.
You don't know jack
Tell me where you can rent a spot in Southie for $150? Maybe $150 per week.
Also "they" got a zoning change. If you went to any of the zoning meetings "they" outnumbered the locals 2 to 1. The sad part s "they" only stay in Southie for an average of three years and everybody gets stuck with what "they" whined so much about.
Actually today it's $100 on craigslist
It has monthly parking in south boston and charlestown. The "they" i referred to are people living in south boston. Are you claiming that people not living in south boston went to the zoning meeting and got the parking requirement increased?
craiglist">https://boston.craigslist.org/search/gbs/prk?query=parking+south+boston&...
Here's my space saver
All mine, all winter.
Haters will hate!
http://www.harborfreight.com/10-ft-x-20-ft-portabl...