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Apartments approved for Belgrade Avenue in Roslindale; still need zoning OK
By adamg on Fri, 03/03/2017 - 11:25am
Drone's-eye rendering.
The BPDA board yesterday approved a four-story, 21-unit apartment building at 317 Belgrade Ave., next to the Bellevue stop on the Needham Line.
John Morrissey and Michael Forde's proposal, which would also include first-floor retail space, now goes before the Zoning Board of Appeals because the building is taller and denser than allowed by city zoning for the site. It also is too close to the front and rear property lines and the 24 proposed parking spaces are fewer than called for based on the project's size.
The proposal is the latest in a series of redevelopment proposals for the once sleepy end of Belgrade Avenue. In addition to an already constructed apartment building where Belgrade ends at the Lords and Ladies parking lot in West Roxbury, current plans include replacing the Clay Auto buildings with an 800-student high school and replacement of the long abandoned gas station at Belgrade and West Roxbury Parkway with 18 condos.
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Comments
Front property line?
I get, I guess being too close to the rear, but why the hell is there a requirement for a setback in the front on Belgrade? All of the commercial (including the existing here) buildings are right on the sidewalk - its what makes a good street wall. If anything they shouldn't allow set backs for newer buildings at all...
Agree!! Ridiculous that you
Agree!! Ridiculous that you have to get a variance for street-facing commercial ESPECIALLY when the existing building is at the front property line! And so are the abutters! I get requiring some front space for new single family or traditional triple-decker style housing, but when the first floor is retail it should be positioned to take advantage of that.
bus stop
They're going to have to close a lane of Belgrade to build right up against the sidewalk. I believe there's a bus stop right at that corner now. And people get on / off there a lot.
I don't understand why but buses go by there every 20 seconds, all day long. I don't think I've ever seen Belgrade without a bus on it, between West Roxbury Parkway and Walworth.
Well, when I was living over
Well, when I was living over there it seemed like buses only came every 30 minutes (and then all 3 of the lines at once), so maybe they finally changed that. But, its temporary construction, they can move the bus stop if needed to the other corner/50 feet away if need be. A few months at most of construction that might slightly interfere with a bus stop is no reason to require a variance to build at the street line.
20 secs? No. 20 mins? Yeah, OK.
My experience is more like bgl's... There are lot's of buses, but they tend to come in clumps.
This is one of my biggest complaints about MBTA bus schedules. There are three (I think) buses that travel that route from Forest Hills and, instead of spreading out when they leave, they all seem to start their run within a few minutes of each other. As a result, someone getting off the T at FH who wants to go to Roslindale or Centre St in West Roxbury can catch any of those buses, but since they all leave at once, you face either a choice of 3 or (more likely) a 20 minute wait for the next group to leave. If they spread them out, there could be a bus every 8 minutes or so.
Gary, I believe what you
Gary, I believe what you describe is a classic problem (at least in the topic of public transportation) in what is known as queueing theory.
Not that I was able to find ya any relevant link via a quick Googling...
Not exactly
Since they go to 3 different destinations, they have 3 different schedules.
At one time, off peak a bus was sent out from Forest Hills roughly every 10 minutes, which meant sometimes 25 minutes could pass before the inbound. They have tried to change things up so that at least in the morning off peak buses were coming roughly every 10 minutes, but that is more of an art than a science.
Very Simple Answer - Zoning
There is a very simple answer to that - Zoning. Just a few years back Roslindale (where this is located) went through a re-zoning process involving many residential and business people and they came up with new standards for what is expected of residential and commercial buildings.
In fact this very tract of land was one of the examples given as needing changes to the commercial code so when it was redeveloped, already known that many years back, that it would be nicer.
Since this will demolish the existing structures and build something new, it is subject to those zoning requirements that would then make Roslindale structures a nicer thing to look at.
Of course, the ZBA and developers have been completely ignoring these new requirements, and newbies recently moving to Rossie have been allowing that to happen.
So much for "quirky" Roslindale, which the new zoning had hoped to preserve.
It was nice for the decades that it lasted.
At this rate it will be high-rise and dense like the South End.
Pushing for density every not
Pushing for density every not good every neighborhood. Developers are allowed to make money and newer residents don't care or just assume it's going to lower prices for them. They assume zoning rules should just be ignored.
Any rule designed to keep new
Any rule designed to keep new people from moving into the neighborhood should be ignored.
That's because almost every
That's because almost every element of the Roslindale rezoning plan was designed to reduce density, which runs directly counter to the city and the BPDA's stated goal of reducing rents by increasing the supply of housing and commercial real estate, especially on parcels near public transportation.
Setbacks on major roads also contribute to speeding (by making drivers feel less claustrophobic) and significantly reduces the amount of usable commercial space that can be built into a small project like this one. Also, I don't get the association between "quirky" and setbacks at all. Setbacks are a planning tool commonly used almost exclusively in automobile-age American suburban development. There is nothing inherently "quirky" about them at all, and they are bad for sidewalk engagement.
If, on the other hand, these setbacks are being used mainly to widen the sidewalk, that would actually be a good thing but nowhere is it written into the zoning code (as far as I can tell) that developers have to provide this setback by making the sidewalk wider.
Know what your getting into
As long as you know that the ZBA is not an agency with a mind of its own, you'll know what to expect. The politicians select the projects they want approved. The selection is based on who "donates" and that how it goes.
Lots of big projects get
Lots of big projects get approved that aren't really good for their sites.
If a project has already gone
If a project has already gone before the BPDA board, the ZBA tends to defer to them and (with rare exceptions) does not raise challenges of its own. The BPDA board, by contrast, tends to ask a lot of developers, and will often kick back projects that have not made enough adjustments to meet the demands of the community. The five members (one of whom is the owner of Bella Luna) are not really connected to the old cabal that was there under Menino. If you think of them as a approving projects for political reasons, it's probably because you think there should be fewer or smaller projects overall. If, like me, you tend to think we should be building more, denser housing with less parking, you tend to see them as overly deferential to the community. If you watch their board meetings and listen to the questions they ask, I think you'll have to agree that they do indeed spend a lot of time educating themselves about the concerns of the community, but they have a mandate to help grow the city's supply of housing, which often runs counter to the immediate desires of the neighborhood.
Not enough parking, and it
Not enough parking, and it should not be that close in the rear to it's neighbors in the rear and it's over density.
Neighbors in the rear?
Aren't the neighbors in the rear on the other side of the train tracks?
Nope
The proposal does not include the property next to the tracks.
That said, the footprint looks to be the same as what is there now.
See more here.
(for the record, this looks like good development.)
Thanks
I couldn't find the actual proposal. I remember now. As of a few months ago, in that ex-caterer building in the back, that's where Exodus Bagels was going to go. Did that happen? Or partially happen, with a production facility but not a deli?
My understanding is they're
My understanding is they're in there doing production, with the deli in-progress.
Neighbors in the rear are
Neighbors in the rear are across the train tracks, but can see over the roofline of the current building. This site is going to be 4 stories, so they will be living in the shadows of the new building.
I find it strange that people
I find it strange that people put so much emphasis on this concern that they're willing to kick people out of the neighborhood to protect it. We pay the city to plant trees on the side of the road to provide shade, but if the shade comes from a building, that's enough to completely change the character of the neighborhood?
...or maybe they really do want to kick people out and this is just a convenient excuse.
Totally
Like, those commuter rail trains totally need their space, man. Can't have the building too close to their fences back there - the CR starts to feel its personal space invaded and goes through all sorts of signal issues.
There are maximum density
There are maximum density restrictions. Your snarky post isn't a good reason for exceeding them.
What about people not being
What about people not being able to afford the rent and having to leave the city completely? Is that a good reason to exceed them? Is "neighborhood character" more important than having a place to live where you can find work?
There's another property.
There's another property back there that your attempt a rebuttal did not mention. It's been posted at the top of topic, and other people have commented on it.
Party wall
I don't know how much closer this building can be to a party wall than the old one is.
317 Belgrade Ave Yes
I live in the area and think this is terrific plan and will be a huge plus for the neighborhood. This is smart development, replacing an empty bldg currently and metal riot gates with small business commercial and residential space, in a location that accesses multiple public transit assets commuter rail and bus) and withing walking distance to shops, grocery stores, restaurants, providing folks a means to live/work without having to get into a car for everything. The promise of urban living.
The zoning request should pass as none of the other building on Belgrade conform to current lot requirements.
There go's the neighborhood
There go's the neighborhood lock doors and windows keep your kids inside GOD PLEASE HELP US