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Garden to require proof of vaccination or a negative Covid-19 test for everybody over 12
By adamg on Wed, 09/22/2021 - 4:20pm
The Garden announced today that starting Sept. 30, everybody attending a game or event there will have to show proof of Covid-19 vaccination or a recent negative test.
Children under 12 don't have to show either. However, everybody will have to wear a mask inside. Also: Don't try showing results from an at-home test - only results from tests administered at clinics, pharmacies and the like will be accepted. The Garden adds you a photo on your phone of your vaccinations will do the trick, providing it's been at least two weeks since your final shot.
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Comments
Good idea but one problem
The concourse at the Garden is the commuter rail lobby which has dozens of passed out druggies, no mask enforcement and a rest room that is a shooting gallery.
Effective earlier than that
I have a friend coming into town to watch the Laver Cup at TD Garden this weekend. That event also requires proof of vaccination or negative test.
False Sense of Security
Don't fall for the idea that this "proof" of vaccination has any meaning. That little paper card from the CDC I got when I actually got vaccinated is clearly impervious to counterfeiting.
Seriously, the city fines and closes bars that go so far as to purchase expensing ID scanning equipment if they find a minor in the bar who happens to have a very expensive fake. What are we prepared to do to these venues who are promoting a false sense of security with these vaccine mandates, and all one has to show is a photo of a handwritten paper card? This is a lawsuit waiting to happen. Many people will get breakthrough infections because they felt comfortable to "eat and drink" with their mask off for the full 3 hours they had a beer in their cupholder while watching the event! The site made them comfortable in their safety due to the vaccination mandate. "I'm not at fault." Class action baby!
This is such a mirage, but that is what our society has become. We prefer the appearance of the reality we want rather than the acceptance of what it is. Good luck to us.
Mirage
A mirage is what will keep as many people coming out and participating in the economy as possible. It keeps job opportunities readily available.
Even if most of the masks people will wear offer some, but only a little protection, it gives confidence to go out and visit local businesses. Even if a mask did nothing, it gives many people confidence to go outside of their home.
Same with this mandate for vaccine proof or negative test. Yes, it can be counterfeit, but the rule itself gives people confidence. We need all the confidence we can get.
Agreed we need better vax documentation
I agree that we should institute a foolproof vaccine passport to keep the sociopathic right wing from prolonging the pandemic, thanks for suggesting it.
It’s a disincentive
I think people are missing the point. Everyone knows that current vax cards can be forged. No one is that unaware.
These policies are meant to deter the unvaccinated and those who can’t be bothered to get tested from showing up to the venue.
It’s meant to make certain people unwelcome so they stay home; don’t overthink it.
The Point
The point is that anyone who is as self destructive, selfish and asocial not to get vaccinated will not be deterred from attending an event at the Garden if that's what they want.
If someone can't get the vaccine because they are immunocompromised I doubt they would be attending an event at the Garden, so this doesn't apply to them. It's the rest.
Passports are already impossible to verify because the whole way the vaccines were done was so there is no real way to track who has been vaccinated. That ship has sailed. Anyone who puts any trust in vaccine mandates is lying to themselves.
More disinformation
This phrase is much bandied about by those who want to provide excuses and cover for antivaxxers, and well-meaning chumps who don't see through the former. As you would expect given the source, it is a lie wrapped up in a cloak of insincere concern for the "immunocompromised". Immunocompromised people can and should get vaccinated; in fact, it's likely that there will soon be a recommendation that some classes of immunocompromised people receive a booster shot. The tiny nugget of truth at the heart of this willful disinformation is that a few categories of immunocompromised people -- specifically, those who are currently receiving treatments that strongly suppress the immune response -- delay receiving the vaccine so that its effects are not negated by the immune-suppressing treatment. There's no "can't get the vaccine" for immunocompromised people. There is at most, for a small subset of immunocompromised people, a "can't get the vaccine right now".
OK, I'm not a doctor
I'm sure my Rheumatologist could respond to you about immune conditions better than I can but I will admit this is likely not a very large segment of people. It certainly is a very small minority of the general public who I'm sure aren't likely to try and enter an enclosed space with 15,000 other people anytime soon.
Uh huh
I've heard plenty on the subject from my rheumatologist, too. Specifically, every time I talked to her starting about a year ago, she told me to get the vaccine ASAP. I do have a friend who was advised to delay because she was coming off an organ transplant and on strong immune-suppressing drugs. She is part of a small minority even of the immunocompromised, never mind the general public.
Incorrect
This is untrue. Your health insurance or the state has records of who got vaccinated. For instance, read this.
https://boston.cbslocal.com/2021/08/10/covid-19-vaccination-card-replace...
So you're all for vaccine passports now, right Terrapin?
Flat out Wrong
The state has a partial database of some vaccinated people, and health insurers have information on some of their insured who they paid clinics for the vaccination (only due to the reimbursement they request from the Federal Government), but this is a very incomplete list. This information is also not available to the public.
There is no possible way to gather a listing of even close to all actually vaccinated people in the US. This was by design as a way to lower the barriers and reduce vaccine hesitancy. Initially privacy was expected to be one of the most significant barriers It is also why the only entity that could actually have created an effective vaccine passport (the US Government) failed in its vaccination plan. We are stuck with the results.
If you can't tell, I am in favor of a vaccine passport. I'm placing blame on the Government (both administrations) for failing to provide a way for us to actually have an accurate one. And I'm pointing out that facility entrance requirements to show "proof of vaccination" is not actually adding to anyone's safety.
Reading is Essential
That's a lot of words to say you didn't.
The fact is your immunizations including COVID are on record with the department of health.
Here's another one you can read, straight form the state: https://www.mass.gov/info-details/requesting-a-copy-of-your-covid-19-vac...
Since you support vaccine passports, you should feel much better now. You're welcome.
If, If, If
Too many If's on that sheet. Too many places that were offering vaccines that the MA Department of Health would not know about. First of all, what if you were vaccinated in another state? What if you were vaccinated in one of the mobile sites who specifically did not require proof of identity. Not all Unions who held vaccination clinics kept records they shared with the state.
There are millions of people in the US who were vaccinated and there is no government authority who can link the record to that individual.
That said, your entire notion is that there could be a vaccine passport which no one with any Executive authority over you in Government is currently proposing. Mostly because they know that horse has left the barn.
Who
the F in Massachusetts has been able to administer a COVID vaccine without DPH knowing about it? Please, cite some sources.
Nope
Wrong again. They all report to MIIS.
Please get your facts straight before commenting. You don't know what you are talking about.
ID/PII
ANYONE was able to get the vaccine without showing and ID or providing personally identifying information if they really wanted to do so for their own reasons. I know two personally who did (both of whom are African American by the way in case you care). I'm not saying at every site, but at enough it was done. No questions asked.
I'm happy it was possible because I think more people that you would believe are vaccinated only because they could in that way.
But, back to the original point, there is NO WAY that the Garden asking people to show a picture of a handwritten card on their phone is keeping unvaccinated people out of the room. Just be aware and don't believe the false sense of security it is attempting to provide.
Oh. They didn't show ID.
The former is true. The latter? You're gonna have to do more than vague anecdotes, sorry. When I got my vax no one was asked for ID, and everyone was asked for PII that could identify them and be used to contact them if needed.
City of Boston
Walk in and mobile sites. If you identified yourself as undocumented you were not required to provide information that could identify you. Even if you aren't undocumented you could use that reason. You also could claim to be from out of state and, therefore, there is no state registry for you. There is a large anti-vax community among older African Americans in our cities. Many of their children wanted the vaccinations but don't want it to be known in their community for fear.
Maybe it wasn't official policy at the sites. But I am personally aware of two, and they described others to me in similar situations. If you read the information on the City of Boston website it never states that identity verification is required in any way. There is a reason for that, and I believe it is a good one.
Really, what I'm saying should not be particularly controversial.
So should we stop doing age verification at bars/clubs?
After all, any 18 year old will tell you that drivers licenses can be forged.
that’s not what it is
no, we get these half assed measures because there’s a vocal minority of massachusetts residents who oppose *any* form of virus mitigation and our elected officials don’t know how to ignore them.
You are right, if Governor
You are right, if Governor Ditherer had made an electronic one similar to other states when they were, instead of just now realizing it might be a good idea, it would be stronger. But bc he is incapable of anything but handing out for rich corporations and further destroying the T, we as a state are behind and stuck with better than nothing.
You’re doing a heckava Charles.
Facebook University Graduate School
School of Libertarian Health
Why don't kids need a
Why don't kids need a negative test? The point of testing isn't to punish people who choose not to get a vaccine. It's to keep everyone else safe.
What constitutes "proof"
What would it mean to show "proof" of vaccine. They can't possibly be talking seriously about the little paper CDC card, the one that was handed to me as a record of my vaccination but that was never intended to be tamper-evident; the one that any reasonably skilled 12 year old with access to a printer could produce. Surely nobody thinks that constitutes evidence of vaccination much stronger than a handwritten note saying "I've been vaccinated."
Yes, you *can* do that
Assuming you can find the card stock to print it on and get it to line up correctly, then cut it well enough with scissors (maybe you have a paper cutter at home?) to fool someone. Or maybe you buy one online.
Either way, because it is issued by the government and contains a symbol of a Federal agency, using a counterfeit one is a Federal crime.
That's a lot to go to in order to see a Bruins game.
And yes, prosecuted
Users and makers of fake vaccination cards are being prosecuted.
MIIS
All it takes is MIIS access to verify the document if it says "Maderna" or "Phizer".
Swirls
Don't forget about the people who got their vaccine from John's son.
Bleaching the crowd
Is anyone going to bring up that this disproportionately affects African Americans and Latinos, the two least vaccinated groups? Or is everyone just really excited about being in much whiter crowds? I suppose they'll be less unruly, right? And you can finally watch a movie without anyone talking, just like back in the 50s.
OK, yeah you've convinced me - bring on the vaxxpass!
Such racist BS
The virus doesn’t care what race you are. So why should we care what race the covidiots are? If you aren’t vaccinated, get your shots. Period. If you refuse, take a test so we know you aren’t going to infect people around you.
OK then
I was worried that since people are scared, they might not be thinking about the rights and needs of marginalized groups when instituting these new rules. Historically, that's certainly been a problem in America and Europe.
I was wrong though, you already thought about them and decided "f- those assholes".
Everyone* needs to get vaxxed
While I take your point—even if many don’t—that credential requirements have been weaponized against marginalized people since the the early days of this country, that is not a sufficient reason to scrap the idea of vaccine verification altogether.
Unvaccinated people, including skeptical African Americans and Latinos, need to get vaccinated. Along with a standardized passport roll out, the AG should make it clear that passports, etc must not be used to violate civil rights and violators will be prosecuted and made an example of.
(*standard age/doctor recommendation caveats applied)
There is no marginalized
There is no marginalized group when it comes to the vaccine since it’s free and easily obtainable for everyone. Stop making crap up.
This is the same argument
This is the same argument conservatives make with Voter ID.
I think POC are going to notice how abruptly the supposed Woke White People shift to the hard-right when they feel scared or threatened.
Apples and oranges
I'm not sure how it works in other states, but the COVID vaccines are FAR more accessible in Massachusetts than government issued IDs are.
There's what, 27 RMV branches, open M-F for "regular" business hours. And some AAA offices, if you are a member, that would get you Saturday hours if that hasn't changed since I last renewed my license. Otherwise, you have to get a passport through the passport application process. I can't think of any other government issued IDs in MA that would be accepted in the context you mentioned.
I'm guessing most urban and suburban areas of MA have at least one location that can give you a COVID vaccine weekdays, nights and weekends. Rural MA might not have as much access in general. There may still be access issues for some, but compared to government issued IDs, they aren't even in the same league for access issues.
I think people are on different pages here
I don’t think the complaint is that marginalized groups will not be able to obtain vaccines and obtain passports. I think the complaint is that people with malicious intent use the ability check credentials as a way to harass or discriminate. Some examples:
- Black men driving nice cars pulled over frequently for a registration check because cops are suspicious that a Black man could afford such a car.
- Selective enforcement by venues that require people with out of state licenses where bouncers to above 25 that turn away 24-year-old Black males with an out of state license, but make exceptions for 22-year-old white women with out of state licenses
- Just this week, Google campus security harrassed an employee because he didn’t have is ID badge.
- The countless “Karen” videos of white people harrassing Black fellow apartment complex/HOA residents to show “proof” that they belong in their own complex/neighborhood.
I don’t think the argument is that marginalized groups *can’t* get vaccines and vaccine passports, I think the objection is to yet another point of friction where people with arbitrary power can find new reasons to harras marginalized people to “prove” themselves or find a tenuous reason to deny access or service. And, while I think this is a valid concern that should be addressed, I don’t think it is a reason to fully obstruct a vaccine passport program.
I didn't read it that way
but I would certainly hope that sort of selective enforcement of a policy like this would not be the case. That would be bad for a whole list of reasons.
FWIW
I thought you were arguing in good faith. :)
It's funny you've assumed
It's funny you've assumed people are afraid twice now. In my professional capacity I've talked to literally hundreds of people about their feelings around Covid, and the only ones who consistently perceive the situation in terms of fear are the very ones who are anti vax, anti mask, Fox News watching, gun carrying right wingers. I guess it makes sense, their brains are always primed by their alarmist media puppeteers to be afraid and threatened so it overrides their prefrontal cortex and impairs rational thought. When I've asked why they assume it's fear and not, oh, wanting to get this damn shitshow over with, they have been genuinely surprised. Like it never occurred to them that most people aren't afraid, they are tired, concerned, angry, frustrated, but not really afraid.
Nope
Not when the GOP is taking away voting spaces and hours in selected neighborhoods, and DPH is drilling down and making extra efforts to get vaccine into similar areas in Massachusetts.
bzzzzt. Please try again.
Let me guess
You haven't been paying attention to how DPH has been organizing to vaccinate in minority communities, increase access, increase awareness, and work within communities to ensure that people get the information and vaccine they need.
Of course you haven't - even though that information is easy to find with a simple google search. That might reduce your strawman to, well, straw.
Guess again, but read first.
I'm not saying that POC don't have access to the vaccine, Swirly. They're the least vaccinated groups by choice.
So...
So what's the racist part again?
The vaccine is equally available in all neighborhoods
anywhere that has a community health clinic, or a CVS, or a Walgreens, or a grocery store pharmacy.
Last time I looked (which was a while ago), Chelsea was one of our better vaccinated places.
Plus
Church events, community events, farmer's markets, vans stationed at transit hubs in underserved areas ...
And...
Transfer stations, high school football games, senior centers...
A lot of work has gone into making this vaccine as accessible as possible I respect those efforts.
If everyone really wants to get into the Garden, equally by race
...then this requirement will probably help *reduce* any racial disparity in vaccination rates.