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Tsk: Boston lawyer gets letter banning him from Madison Square Garden in New York
By adamg on Fri, 07/08/2022 - 11:28am
Joel Fleming, a partner at Block & Leviton on Franklin Street, got a letter recently banning him from Madison Square Garden and Radio City Music Hall. Reuters reports Fleming is an attorney for a group of Madison Square Garden Entertainment Corp. shareholders suing the company over some corporate thing and part of the company's defense is to send out letters prohibiting shareholder lawyers from attending Knicks games and the like.
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Comments
I'm going to say it
Having attended hockey games in 11 NHL arenas, Madison Square Garden is the most overrated of the bunch. Even Tampa has a better facility.
"Even Tampa has a better facility"
Even the old Tampa rink at the Suncoast Dome was better than the pit that is MSG. However I will give MSG points for lots of Guinness and Irish whiskey available throughout.
Overrated?
Overrated?
I've never heard of it being that hyped that it could be realized to be overrated.
It opened 54 years ago.
There are arenas that opened after it that have already been closed.
The next oldest NHL arena (in use) is 15 years younger. The next one after that is another 10 years younger.
It was good (perhaps) for its time, but I'm sure there are practical or financial limits to how much they can renovate/retrofit to current concepts.
Nope, wasn't good for its time
The MSG/Penn Station complex has been crap since day 1.
Yes, Penn Station
Yes, Penn Station wreckovation has been well-known for decades.
Being on top of the Station and however many subway and commuter rail lines, though, is a fantastic location for the arena.
...and the Station's crappyness doesn't really have much to do with the basic functionality of the arena.
All I have is a kid's memory of being there in the late 70s (and not for Knicks or Rangers, but the Circus). It was something of its time, a move forward from those sainted old places with columns and obstructed-view seating.
Obstructed view
Obstructed view seats are now part of my "old-timer" stories to tell younger people about going to events at the original Garden. In that building if you were under the balcony behind the net in the last six rows or so the overhang of the balcony above blocked your view of the net at the far side of the rink. There was an unwritten agreement that when the action was down there those rows all collectively leaned over to one side in order to peek under that lip to see what was happening.
On the other hand sitting in the first few rows of the balcony on the sides of the rink put you so on top of the action that it was like watching a coach's chalkboard unfold in real life.
"The World's Most Famous Arena"
That's their slogan. Hence my crack that it is the World's Most Overrated Arena.
It's been rehabbed a few times since opening, but the basic layout is flawed. It is probably a good boxing venue, but again, for hockey, the layout is poor. I visited 3 of the "Original 6" arenas, and even though we are talking arenas built in 1928 (Boston Garden,) 1929 (Chicago Stadium,) and 1931 (Maple Leaf Gardens) they all put the current MSG to shame. Though, to be fair, the toilets and concessions are probably better.
They might be right
They only said "most famous", not "best". Lots of terrible things are well-known, such as norovirus and Rick Santorum.
A predictably petty action from a NY based company
But the story did have a great quote from one of the Boston based attorneys:
You Can't Watch The Knicks?
I am sending in an Amicus Brief on this so I too don't have to watch the most constantly overrated team ever.
Just remember, the Jets, Mets, Knicks, and Rangers since 1972 have had the chance, to win a collective 200 championships. These four teams have won 3 championships (73 Knicks, 86 Mets, 94 Rangers) in that time period.
Ha Ha. I would frame a letter saying I couldn't go into MSG.
I get your point, but
Seems a bit like cherry-picking to choose the Jets over the Giants, the Mets over the Yankees, and the Rangers over the Islanders...
Sounds like a Brooklyn/Queens
Sounds like a Brooklyn/Queens and east side of the city -centric person.
There are plenty of fans there who used to be on one side or the other of an axis. Giants, Devils, Nets, Yankees on one side - Mets, Jets, Knicks, Rangers on the other. With a bit of odd snobbery of not going out to Nassau County to see the Islanders (or, yes, cherry-picking to exclude four consecutive Stanley Cups at the Coliseum (and that was a while ago, too)). Somebody whose sports formation in the area was mid-70s or later.
OK
Since 1973
Mets 1 Championship
Knicks 1 Championship
Nets - 0 (I'm not counting late period ABA)
Islanders / Devils - Don't Count. Isles played in Uniondale and always, always stated they were a Long Island, not NYC team, even if they play in Queens now. Look at their logo. It cuts off Brooklyn and Queens. New Jersey is NJ, not NYC.
Jets - 0
Giants - 4 (1 because the refs didn't call the 85 holding penalties that they committed during the Helmet Catch play).
Yankees - 7 - 77, 78, 96, 98, 99, 00, 09
That's 13 Championships amongst 6 teams.
Boston since 1973
Pats - 6
Bruins - 1
Red Sox - 4
Celtics - 6
That's 17 Championships for Boston among 4 teams since the reported "Greatest Basketball Team Ever" - the 73 Knicks played at "The World's Greatest Arena".
MLS doesn't count either until they lift the salary cap and get pro/rel in. Besides NYCFC has a Proud Boys supporters group because those incels like to cosplay that they are in Thatcherite England. Loozahs.
Also
For all you anti-car buffs out there, the builders of Madison Square Garden destroyed one of the greatest pieces of transit related architecture in this country; Penn Station.
You feel just two steps above Andy Dufrense coming out of the sewer pipe when you come out of that rat warren there now. (Full disclosure - I have not been to Moynihan).
Moynihan Train Hall is
Moynihan Train Hall is beautiful, but... I don't know... I'm not sure how useful it really is for some patrons yet. Identity crisis? Not fully realized? Depending on other station and track rebuilding (not to mention the new river tunnels which are ten years out) 'til we get the full impact?
I went there twice from Boston in 2021.
(conductors kept calling it "Monaghan" Train Hall. How soon they forget...)
At that point - just opened, maybe not entirely finished, whatever stage in second-year pandemic advisories, and not-new issues with apprehension about the homeless & addicts in public spaces...
On the good side - it was wide open, pretty good on ADA, spacious, lots of natural light...
On the down side - food hall wasn't open, there was no place to sit and it is somewhat remote from the rest of the station.
It's nice and convenient if your taxi is picking you up or dropping you off there to begin/end your Amtrak trip, or if you're connecting via the 8th Avenue Subway. Otherwise... you have to cross 8th Avenue at street level (exposed to the weather) or maybe have a long walk down on platforms (crowded if a train just arrived) to connect between the old and new parts of the station or over to the 7th Avenue Subway.
Moynahan is bad for ADA
Besides the lack of seating (a serious problem for people with a variety of disabilities), none of the outside doors I saw when I was there could be opened automatically which means they aren't accessible for people in wheelchairs or using crutches.
Then there's Penn Station, which lacks signs on the concourse level to direct people to escalators or elevators.
Ans it only stood for 53 years
There is a current movement to rebuild it in its original form... I doubt it'll happen, but I'd like to see it.
Islanders vs. Patriots
If the Islanders are not a NYC team, how can the Foxboro/New England Patriots be called a Boston team? Both are resolutely suburban.
I see your point
If there was an NFL franchise playing in the Seaport District and the Patriots played out in Foxboro I think you'd have a winning argument. However, with a single team there is no "allegiance" question and it's clear that the team for the city of Boston is the Patriots.
Ooooh! The Helmet Catch!
Ooooh! The Helmet Catch! You forgot to mention Buckner and Dent to discount some other championships, too.
The Patriots got beat. Twice. By the Giants*
* The Giants, by the way, have been (since ~1976) an NJ team. Apologies to - the NFL offices, whatever NYC address Mara & Tisch have kept them incorporated at, the loser TV networks that desperately turn the blimp to give establishing shots of the NYC skyline to keep the NFL happy, and OG fans who have had season tickets since 1925. (and the 80s GIANTS is still a much better helmet logo than the old-school ny)
As a consolation prize, NY can have the Jets back.
The Devils are an NJ team (and much closer to NYC than the Islanders, who have been content being their own thing).
The Nets... Well... NJ then NY then NJ and then NY again. They were honest about being NJ when they were there, though, which is most of their history and which counts for a lot.
You went off the rails on the blimp shot
If you're piloting a blimp over the Hudson you can turn the camera in one direction for the stadium and one-eighty it for the shots of the Manhattan skyline. Shots of downtown Boston when the game is in Foxboro is far more misleading/disingenuous.
Yes, it is not a physically
Yes, it is not a physically desperate maneuver to take an establishing shot in another direction.
It is, however, somewhat desperate in the marketing and branding department to insist upon establishing shots of where you aren't instead of where you are.
...and while they're up there, they could do some ground-penetrating radar scans (or is that sci-fi and action-movie level) to find the debris of Penn Station in the marshes.
Maybe it's just me but if I
Maybe it's just me but if I was trying to prove that my merger wasn't hurting anyone I think I'd start by not flaunting how culturally important my conglomeration has become and how utterly petty it can be.
This sounds like something
This sounds like something that came straight from James Dolan. He routinely bans people from Knicks games for making fun of his crappy band.
As someone born and raised in NYC
I don't think you'll find any NYers who disagree with all the comments saying how crappy MSG is.
Sadly, the Knicks were once a great team. In the late 1960s, the team of Willis Reed, Bill Bradley, Earl the Pearl Monroe and company was one of the great teamwork teams of all time and a joy to watch. Of course, this was before the 3-point shot's arrival. I'm very glad we have the Celtics and the Garden here, but mourn what the Knicks have become.
I'm willing to bet that if Marty Walsh said,
"You should hire union people to work these games at MSG," all would be forgiven.
Sure, a "Lawsuit"
That's a better excuse then why most people are banned from these stadiums.
I was in Manhattan during
I was in Manhattan during Thanksgiving weekend to attend the B.U.-Cornell game, and the area around MSG is a mess of construction and plywood. The whole neighborhood smells of weed, there is ugly scaffolding everywhere, and even when you sit in the loge, the sight lines at the arena can be so-so. I'm banned from Knicks games? Praise be!
I'll give you the sightlines, but
How is it MSG's responsibility for what the neighborhood around them looks or smells like?