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City looks to permanently ban cars from Dartmouth Street in front of the BPL
By adamg on Thu, 01/19/2023 - 11:15am
The BPDA board this afternoon will vote on spending $100,000 for a consultant to recommend ways to turn Dartmouth Street between the BPL main library and the Copley Square park into a permanent mall for pedestrians and bicyclists - with space set aside for a lane for emergency vehicles.
The vote comes after the BPDA and the Boston Transportation Department ran a ten-day pilot that turned the street into a sort of mall with food trucks, seating and performances. According to the BPDA:
The majority of the feedback following the pilot was overwhelmingly positive, with many visitors saying they would visit the area more frequently if it was made a permanently car-free space. ...
An analysis of motor vehicle routes in the area found that travel times during the pilot were generally comparable to pre-pilot travel times, with minimal time added onto trips. The analysis found that lower traffic volumes made Dartmouth Street more comfortable for biking. These results have encouraged the BPDA and BTD to advance the Copley Connect Long-Term Design Strategy, which will identify concepts for the redesign of Dartmouth Street and identify ancillary changes to nearby streets, as needed.
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Comments
Yesses!
Yesses!
More of this. Paris used the COVID lockdown to reconfigure streets for less car traffic and is going to pedestrianize the Champs-Élysées. NYC shut down all of 14th Street to cars and made it buses and bikes only. Berlin has a movement to ban cars in the entire city center and cities like London already have congestion pricing
The Boston Green New Deal needs to take Boston in this direction with less street space for cars and more for people, public transit and people powered transit/micromobility
less street space for cars =
less street space for cars = making it harder for people to work
What do Paris, Berlin, and
What do Paris, Berlin, and London have in common? Excellent rail networks. Frequent and fast trains all over the place, including out to the suburbs. NYC is decent but not perfect. Boston, not so much.
Planning process
I can't wait to see what they build when they finally complete construction sometime in the 2030s.
Is any actual construction needed for this?
Seems like you could do it pretty quickly with some signage and a couple of concrete barriers.
Planning
Agree they could do this tomorrow if they wanted to with some barriers and paint, but here we have a year (!) of "study" to "identify concepts" for permanent improvements. After that surely we'll have a year (or three) of community meetings before a final design is selected. After that we'll have another public comment period on the final design, which will surely cause more delays. Then the bidding process can begin before anything finally breaks ground.
Tangentially, look no further than the Franklin Park Action Plan to see how drawn out the city can make the planning process for projects that are seemingly easy these days. The Winthrop Garage was sold in 2016, it's now 2023 and they only just released a plan for the largest park in Boston, and there is still another public comment period open!
just look at birch st plaza
they did the smart thing, just shut it down with jersey barriers, which are now planters, and put in some patio seating. Three years later and we’re still waiting for the permanent build out. Imagine if we waited to shut down the street until the city was ready to build.
Magoo sez
This is so dope. Magoo is trying to sound cool by saying “this is so dope” ‘cause this is how Magoo ‘specs cool kidz sound and Magoo hopes over hopes Magoo is a cool kid. Tee hee hee. Magoo.
What's the alternate route?
What's the alternate route? East on Stuart, north on Berkeley?
That will cause jams, and hostile conditions for pedestrians with all the turning traffic. How will the city mitigate this? I hope it doesn't end up as bad as the recent changes in the Tremont/Boylston area. That's a total disaster, with major delays at times that used to be quiet.
I'm not surprised that the analysis says this change had no negative effects. I'm sure there was a similar study for Tremont/Boylston. The mayor wants it to happen, so the study finds the result that everyone wants. They're not going to say, "it's going to be horrible but we're doing it anyway", but that's what happened.
Ok, take transit. Except the Silver Line gets stuck in it the same as all the cars. At least this block of Dartmouth has no bus routes, but I hope the spillback effects of the cars getting stuck in the detour don't affect buses further south on Dartmouth.
"That will cause jams, and
"That will cause jams, and hostile conditions for pedestrians with all the turning traffic."
Ummm - it's already like that.
It's time to let go of the cars ...that's what got us into this mess in the first place. Cars are no longer king.
Even if it impacts traffic
This is good even if it impacts traffic. It also may be good precisely because it impacts traffic. That is because we look at traffic all wrong. Congested streets are actually safer for pedestrians and people on bikes because cars have less room to reach high speeds (the biggest determinant for damage in a crash). Congested streets also discourage driving and incentivize walking, biking, or taking public transit. We should not and ultimately cannot prioritize car throughput forever, at some point we need to reorient to what actually matters.
Hey anon
You do realize that Boylston was originally designed with bike lanes, carriage lanes, sidewalks ... and no car lanes.
Right?
This area was not built for cars.
Which anon?
That's my problem with responding to anons', It's way to confusing. Are you addressing the one who was positive about the idea or the one who was against it or the ones who are in between and seemingly talking to themselves? Very confusing.
Anyhow, that's a good point SwirlyGrrl.
Indented threading
It's been around for a while.
City looks to permanently ban cars
What's the downside?
What's the downside?
From your lips...
to God's ears!
They were an interesting experiment
There were no cars for a solid 2/3 of Boston's eurosettlement history.
What's their plan to deal with homeless
Congregating all around the parameter, including front entrance, blasting rap, etc.,? And never mind the inside. Copley BPL is a shelter for mentally ill, druggie homeless, many young men. And also dealers.
"blasting rap"
Since when is that a crime? This is just radicalized dogwhistles and a hatred of poor people, it isn't a substantive addition to the conversation or worthy of any further consideration.
"Congregating all around the parameter"
Maybe you should spend more time in the BPL, they have dictionaries there you know.
Anon Karens..
Are Karen's nonetheless
I have to laugh at whiners ….
… whining over anons. As if we weren’t all anonymous.
I have to laugh...
At someone who misses the point so completely.
Please never tutor any MCAS students
You mean Lee is not your real
You mean Lee is not your real username?
I have a story behind my username that goes back to the CBBS era but I'm not going to bore you with it.
A much smaller experiment in Roslindale
The city shut Birch Street between Corinth and South streets in Roslindale Square a couple of years ago and so far, the result has not been chaos in the streets.
That's a very different project and you know it
No one drove up that block of Birch Street to get anywhere else.
Now, when they close down Corinth Street, you may be closer to a similar project, though admittedly it is on the opposite end of the spectrum as the Birch Street project.
Pedestrian only Birch Street
Pedestrian only Birch Street is great. Distraction Brewery's patio there is lovely.
Privatization of a public space
It used to be a public road for public use. Now it's Distraction's property.
To be clear, I was not opposed to closing Birch Street to traffic, and I still think it's not a bad idea, but just like the pocket park cum drug spot next to Fornax, somehow public spaces are becoming private.
Nah, they are still public.
Anyone can go there. You just can’t bring your car.
Except
If I pack a box lunch and take a seat on the benches in the middle of the former street, it won’t be kosher.
Public spaces
They can exist without cars. It is possible.
And if you are going to complain about "private", then where is the angst over the amount of "public" land given entirely over to the storage of "private" automobiles.
Can you read?
Reread what I wrote that triggered you. I supported this move, but seeing that the area has become an extension of Distraction Brewing (they paid a nice round number for the space) doesn’t seem right.
Ah Pedestrianization
Somebody told me that Newbury Street should be all pedestrian because retailers love side sidewalks.
Great.
Does anyone notice the highest retail vacancies in Boston are the places with the widest sidewalks; DTX and Boylston between Clarendon and Arlington?
Anyone want to guess where the highest retail occupancies are in Boston? That would be the "traffic choked" Newbury Street and the Seaport.
Good luck all of you looking for a "car free Boston".
I was in both Paris and Barcelona last year. Everyone points to these places where things are just butter up my ass and lollipops in my mouth. There are cars everywhere is these cities. Stop saying "Well Paris Does It" unless you know what you are talking about. There are two lanes of traffic on Las Ramblas and bike lanes, just like, Boylston Street.
You were the most activity is for retail in Paris? The Champs Elysee and the area around the Opera House. Each place has lots of cars, lots of people.
You want car free retail? Head on down to the National Chain Places at Quincy Market. Then get back to me.
DTX vacancies
DTX vacancies are not due to pedestrianization, but to the general trend of suburbanization and the loss of big box retailers in city center, combined with developers who see leaving properties abandoned as more worthwhile than filling them as they can use the dereliction to frame their proposed demolitions as worthwhile.
And as for "there are cars everywhere in these cities" No there simply are not. There are huge areas, in Barcelona and many other European cities that are fully pedestrianized and even larger areas are pedestrianized except for local abutters and deliveries (resulting in incredibly low traffic volumes). Maybe you should stop trying to use European cities as an excuse to continue car dependency when it is so abundantly clear you have no idea what you are talking about. In just about any European city Newbury would have already been pedestrianized (and the allies likely make keeping it open for even deliveries unnecessary).
You Are Really Wrong.
"There are huge areas, in Barcelona and many other European cities that are fully pedestrianized" - Yes the streets laid out in 1368 which are about as wide as two people. I am not disagreeing with that.
However, this Boston. We have a grid pattern. Paris has the Hausmann plan, which if you look at its history makes the destruction of the West End look like a Home Depot shed getting torn down. There are lots and lots and lots of cars in Paris. There are lots and lots of cars in Barcelona, on city layouts set up around the same time as the Back Bay. Clam up.
Also - Get a user name and Gaffin, stop posting full retorts if this person is too lazy to get one.
Hey dum-dum, as usual you
Hey dum-dum, as usual you have no idea what you're talking about. Google "Barcelona Superblocks."
He also demonstrates no awareness
of the movement during and after the pandemic across Europe, and in particular in France and Spain, to reduce emissions. Yeah, blocking cars from (a very small portion of) Dartmouth street is obviously an attempt to make Boston car free, a rainbow dream that has never happened anywhere.
Please cite your sources
Where are you getting your data here?
I've Been There and Looked
If you can get the senior discount that you qualify for, get on a plane and look yourself.
That is more than a parody
of your usual shtick, which is more or less "for at least three generations people have been aware of this particular problem or how things have been in Boston, especially Dorchester, and then these tourists show up and start talking like they know things."
Indeed, go look yourself.
lololol
How to admit you've never set foot in the city, without actually saying it out loud.
Grid Pattern
You have never noticed that the Back Bay is a grid?
Glad to see the edible has kicked in.
Oh my
You have never noticed that the Back Bay is a tiny section of Boston?
He has not.
John Boy likes his conspicuous consumption tourist destinations suited to him when he dabbles in pedestrian life alla Marie Antoinette. This is because he can’t bring his usual fiberglass exoskeleton on the plane with him.
Back home, is a different story, for this old timey provincial.
Let's be honest here
This is just a red herring fallacy. The Back Bay was filled in during the late 19th century while the rest of Boston was expanding outwards. The layout was based upon the Haussman Paris plan to feature the grid system and wide roads in parallel.
You can't choose the one neighborhood that was created by filling in the bay as your example of Boston having a grid.
Even look back during the orange line shutdown. Eliminating cars along that stretch didn't kill foot traffic down there. Open streets Newbury was a success last year with thousands of people enjoying a beautiful day in the neighborhood.
Boylston
Boylston is 3 lanes of traffic and two lanes of parking for a total of 5 lanes dedicated to cars. I was in Barcelona this past summer and using the La Rambala to advocate for cars in the city center is some serious twisting.
I was in Paris before the Pandemic and was already surprised at the bike infrastructure that was built. Since the Pandemic they have done a ton more work.
Translation:
"But muh carz!"
Need more of this
Boston gets a lot of play as a walking city, and by American standards it may be, but compared to most European cities we dedicate far too much of our central spaces to automobiles and have minuscule pedestrianized areas. The scale of pedestrianization needed to improve the safety, ecology, and livability of this city dwarf this proposal. This is literally one (pretty short) block, if we aren't able to kick cars out of a single city city block we are hopeless. We like to call ourselves a world class city but we do not live up to those standards when it comes to deprioritizing cars and reprioritizing what actually makes cities livable.
Its not just Europe. In Tokyo
Its not just Europe. In Tokyo they regularly shut down the main shopping streets all over the city to cars.
A 10-day pilot
would seem like an awfully short sample period to be basing a potentially permanent decision on.
Boston was car free for
Boston was car free for hundreds of years. Is that a long enough sample period for you?
??
Trains and buses didn’t exist when Boston was founded either. Shall we oppose any and all further such expansion as well? Other than being unnecessarily snarky, what’s your point?
Consultant?
Why is one necessary when Boston has multiple agencies and planners who could do this? What a waste of money when the job could be done in-house.
Nobody wants responsibility,
Nobody wants responsibility, that's why this admin is all about committees and consultants.
Wouldn't a pedestrian footbridge
That doesn't look like a turgid penis, be more traffic friendly?
Footbridges are inconvenient and not ADA friendly
And why, in the middle of a city built for walking should thousands of pedestrians have to walk to a bridge, climb over a bridge, and then walk to where they were going all so a relatively few people in cars can drive through more quickly while not contributing economically to the area?
That doesn't make any sense.
Off Topic:
Which footbridge is that Friartuck?
westbound pike on ramp
Perhaps I missed it but is the Dartmouth St on ramp to the pike no longer there? I don't live west of Boston anymore so I haven't looked. I fight with the Expressway now, and last time I had to go to Newton I took 128.
Jeez I sound like my father.
It's below the proposed closure
From the previous temporary closures it shuts down between St James/Blagden & Boylston, but doesn't affect those roads. So you'd be able to drive up Dartmouth from the South End and turn left at the closure to get on the pike or drive west on St James and head straight onto the ramp still.
Poor timing
I like the idea. But it should have been built into the Copley redesign plan that is supposed to be done this spring
https://www.sasaki.com/voices/latest-updates-on-redesigning-copley-squar...
Another $100k for consultants?
Mayor Wu needs to search her own administration for someone already on the payroll who can figure this out! I am sure we already pay for traffic engineers. And if they can't figure it out, maybe it's time to revamp certain departments.
Time to revamp certain departments
Definitely time to do that. Mass Dot in particular.
Mass Dot is STATE, not Boston.
You'd have to speak to Governor Healey for that, not Mayor Wu.
Another $100k for consultants?
Mayor Wu needs to search her own administration for someone already on the payroll who can figure this out! I am sure we already pay for traffic engineers. And if they can't figure it out, maybe it's time to revamp certain departments.