State awarded megabucks to replace creaky train drawbridges at North Station
State officials report the feds have awarded the MBTA $472 million to replace the current 100-year-old drawbridges that connect North Station to points north and west over the Charles River.
In addition to replacing the current two parallel bridges with three modern spans, the Draw One project will also let the T connect two platforms - Tracks 11 and 12 - at North Station that are not currently connected to the tracks past the station.
The Healey administration reports this is the largest federal grant the T has ever won. Construction of the new bridges could take up to seven years; officials say the T will maintain four tracks at all times into North Station to avoid service disruptions.
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Comments
Will It Be Designed For Electric?
Boogie Woogie, Woogie?
It has to happen someday. Electrification is the future of the commuter rail. Hope the bridge design accounts for it.
The article doesn't specify.
The article doesn't specify.
It does say the new bridge(s) will be movable (though not which type). I have seen locations with overhead catenary added to existing rail lines going over swing bridges, lift bridges, and tilt bridges - so that wouldn't be insurmountable.
Also, there doesn't appear to be any overhead clearance issues - nothing like an overpass that would interfere with a tilt or lift span.
electrification of the fleet
electrification of the fleet has nothing to do with this bridge, outside of making sure the dynamic envelope is able to pass through it... this said, any train that replaces an existing train will be virtually identical in size to what we have now, if they are not every train station would need to be modified.... not something the T can afford or should strive for.
The T Should Not Strive For Electrification?
Adam - You can do better than posting Anon rebuttals that suggest renewables shouldn't be considered when powering the T.
They can already do the most used / longest line in the system (South Station / Providence) if they had the equipment.
The anon only said the T
The anon only said the T should not strive for different train sizes. John, can you read?
Come on John
You are right about the importance of striving for electrification of the commuter rail (broken clocks, etc) and I agree with you!
But do you really want Adam stifling opinions that you don't like? While the rebuttal is something I also disagree with, its not some childish name calling response. There is value in hearing opposing opinions and responding with good faith arguments.
Of course there is nothing stopping you from starting your own website about the Greater Boston area and controlling whats posted. Get at it!
Stoughton electric to be part of the South Coast line
They're planning to electrify the Stoughton line when they complete the first phase of the South Coast Line to New Bedford and Fall River in 2025.
(Edited to remove reference to Amtrak - did not know that Amtrak agrees with MBTA and would lease lines, but there's not enough capacity. Hat tip to HenryAlan for clearing that up.)
Amtrak is not the issue
Ture, those lines belong to Amtrak, but they are built over right of way owned by MassDOT. There is an agreement in place allowing the MBTA to use the wires. The issue isn't access, it's electric power capacity. Right now, there isn't enough capacity to add a bunch of Providence Line trains to the mix. The 'T will need it's own substation, most likely in Sharon, before it can start to run its own electric trains on that line.
Got it
I didn't know there was an agreement - I thought Amtrak had a monopoly on the overhead lines. Makes plenty of sense.
Can be done
Amtrak and Metro North have several movable bridges on the Northeast Corridor south of New Haven. And the 1907 bridge over the Connecticut River at Old Saybrook was retrofitted with catenary when that section was electrified in 1900 -- although a new bridge is now under construction there.
The Golden Gate Bridge cost
The Golden Gate Bridge cost $35M in 1935. Adjusting for inflation that’s about a billion today. How do we get to half that for a little drawbridge across the Charles? Fully acknowledging that we absolutely deserve the worker safety and worker pay that we have now versus 1935., I can’t help but think that there is something structurally wrong with how we do things, which is standing in the way of us having shiny infrastructure.
Costs
Costs are driven up by labor costs, and cost of doing business. Remember when the Golden Gate went up there were less employee laws about safety. Thus less costs associated with this (think workman's comp insurance).
People were also paid less than they are today. On average a worker on the Golden Gate bridge in 1932 made $4 to $11 a day. This translates to $94/day to 152/day (or if hourly that works out to $11.75 to $19 respectively).
Find me a iron worker or a riveter that wants to work for $19/hr while thousands of feet above the water in the blowing wind and fog. You won't. This is why these guys make 150/hr+. Its dangerous work.. and we recognize and pay accordingly for that now.
Then there's other costs that have gone up, such as materials. Plus the whole process to build something is far longer, has more studies (such as traffic or environmental), and lots of public input. All of this adds time and cost to the project. Things in the 1930s were built faster because there was little of that, it was more "build baby build"attitude, which we've lost over the past few decades.
This whole topic has been talked about in transit circles forever.. but more reading about this can be done at:
https://bettercities.substack.com/p/americas-infrastructure-costs-are
https://www.vox.com/22534714/rail-roads-infrastructure-costs-america
https://www.npr.org/2023/07/21/1189450206/why-public-transportation-is-e...
And also...
The cost of greenfield (let's put a bridge where there's nothing here now) is much much smaller than replacement (let's squeeze a project into a small place with a bunch of stuff we can't disrupt), and that's much much smaller than replacement without disruption (let's build the bridge while maintaining four tracks in use, 18ish hours a day, and let's not get hit by the trains using them.
This is also an explanatory factor.
OK, but...
The Zakim Bridge cost $105 million -- or a bit over one-fifth the cost of this project -- to build 25 years ago. Same river, and most definitely not a greenfield project.
Yes and no
The Zakim was essentially a greenfield project. The existing Charlestown High Bridge stayed open which it and all it's new connectors were built seperately. Once it opened the existing bridge could be shutdown. This project is doing all it's work on the existing bridge which needs to stay open to accommodate the continued full schedule of Amtrak and the MBTA CR traffic.
OK
Then there's the North Washington Street bridge replacement which most definitely was not a greenfield project and which required a bridge to stay open (mostly) 24/7. $177 million, five years ago.
If I had to guess, this project builds one new bridge next to the existing two, then replaces the other two one-at-a-time. Plus the bridges don't have to be available 24/7.
Is there a point you're trying to make?
Don't mean to come off confrontational/snarky/etc., but neither one of those bridges are movable ones. There is a lot more engineering and infrastructure that goes into constructing a movable one in comparison. And, to your point, three of them are being built. So you could really say each bridge costs about roughly 1/3 of the award amount.
Ok, but ok, but...
The Zakim bridge was built "next to" the Charlestown High Bridge. The builders of the Zakim didn't have to make sure they weren't going to get hit by cars on the CHB, or that the Zakim equipment wasn't in the way of the CHB users. They had far more space.
In this case, they're in a much tighter space, with more modes traveling far closer. Just tons of costs associated with working in very tight spaces alongside moving vehicles...
Plus...
Plus...
Some of those old jobs were "build an entirely new where nothing had been there before" or "build new where you have license and domain to demolish everything that is existing" - as opposed to having to build around something existing that you need to keep in operation until the new thing is complete.
Costs are driven up by labor
I agree (and said so in my initial posting) that the better pay and better working conditions and better worker safety that workers now enjoy, are all good things. The other things you cite, cost of doing business and cost of materials, are already factored in by the inflation adjustment, and we shouldn't double count them.
As an aside, we're getting different inflation numbers. I'm using the BLS CPI calculator (Link here) and getting $242 per day, or $30 per hour now, which is, as you point out, much less than what a skilled construction worker working on a dangerous job ought to be making.
I'm not sure the difference in calculations...
But skilled labor and building materials are very small parts of the total CPI, but large parts of this calculation.
Is it possible that construction materials and bridge-building-labor prices have inflated at significantly different rates than the basket of all goods (that includes deflated items, like electronics and food)? I suspect so...
Steel prices at the grocery store are too high!
See the flaw - structural steel isn't part of the "basket of goods" that go into the CPI. It may be tangentially appearing in the housing costs, but that really isn't a direct input there, either.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/01/24/as-inflation-soars-a-...
You need to look at the commodity price of that steel by itself. Structural steel has become very expensive since the pandemic and also because of some dumbass tariff policies. This is why it has taken so long to fix the damage done by that moron at Roosevelt Circle. Take a look at the last dozen or so years of steel pricing to help you out:
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PCU33231233231211
Britain has specific indexes for construction materials that are not the same as their consumer pricing, and are built for use in pricing projects: https://bcis.co.uk/insight/cpi-v-pafi-why-you-should-use-a-construction-...
To the point of OSHA/etc
Yeah, 11 people died constructing the Golden Gate Bridge. Workers safeties and rights are a bit different 100 years later. On the cost of labor/etc, though, and cost of public infrastructure we do have a big problem in this country. EU countries seem to be able to still build things significantly cheaper, especially when it comes to public transit, and have as much if not more rights, protections, and pay for workers.
Part of the reason the EU can
Part of the reason the EU can build public transit cheaper is that there is so much public transit there (and they are constantly expanding) they have industry there to do it themselves and the scale makes it cheaper. In the US we have this convoluted system that seems to be reinvented every time public transit is expanded/created somewhere and need to bid and import partially built trains and often the expertise as well.
Private Sector
This. and related to this also has to do with knowledge leaving the public sector for the private sector.
Since we 'outsource' almost all construction, including planning, design, and the actual construction.. there's no incentive for people to stay with an agency. So instead, they leave and get paid more in the private sector 'consulting'.
Not only does the consulting drive costs up, but as you said they have to 'reinvent the wheel' each time since the consultants usually aren't familar with the agency they are contracting with so there's time/cost associated with bring them up to speed. let alone having the person stay for the entire project (which often does not happen).
If I read this correctly in
If I read this correctly in the Globe earlier today -see copied and pasted relevant paragraph below- the estimated cost of that bridge replacement is a stunning $1.2 Billion. That would be the equivalent of nearly 3 years of BPD budget. Something doesn't seem right, and hopefully that's just the article that's wrong.
"In what state officials are touting as a “game-changer,” the MBTA has won its largest federal award to date — $472 million from the US Department of Transportation — toward replacing the North Station Draw One Bridge, which connects the cities of Boston and Cambridge, the Healey-Driscoll administration announced. The overall project is expected to cost roughly $1.2 billion."
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/09/23/metro/north-station-drawbridge-re...
For how many years will we ….
… be boarding at Sullivan Station or Chelsea for the North Shore lines while the bridges are rebuilt?
Yes
I was wondering that myself. In April of 1984, a connecting bridge burned near North Station forcing the CR to terminate at Sullivan (for Haverhill & Newburyport branches) and Porter for Lowell & Fitchburg trains for almost a year.
Makes me wonder if they will build a platform at Sullivan (again) for this purpose or what the contingency plans are while the bridge is worked on.
The article read like keeping
The article read like keeping North Station in service with some modified schedule.
There are two existing Bridges with two tracks each. They can take one out for replacement and still have one working bridge with two tracks feeding two station platforms with a total of four tracks, right?
The plan as I understand it
The plan as I understand it is 3 draw bridges with staggered construction schedules with continuous operation. Nobody is getting on / off at Sullivan Square if they go by the current plan.
January 1984
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1984/01/20/A-six-alarm-fire-billowing-thick...
I remember taking winter bus rides to what was basically a miserable little contractor's trailer serving as a waiting room. At the time I didn't even know what the reason was.
Haste
The platform at Sullivan was built very fast because they *had* to do something due to the fire.
But then again, looking at CR stations that have not been upgraded yet and seeing them with their original 1970s platform... which wasn't much and was often just an asphalt pad with a single sign (if you were lucky). No high level platforms, no lighting, no landscaping, no covered waiting area. So a trailer woulda been an upgrade by comparison.
My memory might be hazy, but...
...as I recall it, the thing I'm describing was a super-temporary solution in one of the yards immediately northwest of the bridges, roughly where the skate park is now. (This is back when everything north of the Lechmere Viaduct was still a wasteland.)
Perhaps they built a different temporary solution near Sullivan later that I never experienced.
This was probably for the Lowell Line
It would not have been possible to terminate Lowell trains at either Sullivan or Porter, because the line's tracks don't come all that near to those stations.
It was.
So says my memory too.
Quick-build stations
As part of another movable bridge project in Connecticut, they built a new platform in three weeks.
Seems if they wanted to they could build a single platform at Sullivan connected to the existing Orange Line platform (over the extra track there) in a few weeks, although both tracks would be much trickier.
Sure, terminating at Sullivan
Sure, terminating at Sullivan would suck, but by God, at least we would get a temporary reprieve from the damned exit gates at North Station.
Yeah, I can't wait until
Yeah, I can't wait until those go in at South Station. When an Amtrak and a few Commuter Rail trains dump a giant crowd all at once...
I can’t thumbs up this enough
I can’t thumbs up this enough.
There’s no commuter rail
There’s no commuter rail platform at Sullivan (but Chelsea does indeed have a shiny new one).
Not presently at Sullivan.
But they built a temporary one there in the past.
Will it have a Ped/Bike sidewalk?
As I recall, there was a master plan to be able to connect some of the existing paths the end at science park to North Station which already has a sidewalk extension on the north side that terminates at the river. The missing piece was a new bridge connected or adjacent to the old drawbridge.
Hopefully that is part of the package. It would be a huge win to be able to ride or walk from North Station to Somerville on dedicated paths.
Yes! This tore off bridge
Yes! This tore off bridge connection was one of the promises the Big Dig made. I believe there were 3. Patrick got the Cambridge to Charlestown one done but nothing has been done since. There needs to be consequences for all the promises made to do the big dig that are still unfulfilled (one seat ride to airport from Roxbury, these bridges, covering up the big dig ramps, etc. or the state will promise things on all projects (the mass pike one comes to mind) and never fulfill them.
...bridge connection was one
First things first. First they restore Green Line to Arborway. half/S
Sadly, it does not appear so.
Sadly, it does not appear so. From StreetsBlog:
Rats.
That would be a tragic waste of opportunity
And it certainly won't happen for several more decades unless included with this project.
The last time North Station was renovated, they even built provisions for a future path along with the two unusable tracks.
Nobody expects the Conservation Law Foundation!
We'll see about that!
Yes, but no
Tacking a bridge onto the rail bridge would probably be easier and less expensive than building a freestanding structure, but with significant downsides.
The main downside is that whenever the bridge was up, so too would the bicycle/pedestrian connection be up. And since during the summer the bridge is frequently raised, the bicycle/pedestrian connection would frequently be severed.
It's a lot easier to build a fixed bike/ped bridge than a fixed rail bridge because bicycles and pedestrians are much more tolerant of grades than trains. The bridge location for trains here has to be level since the platforms are only a couple of hundred feet from the bridge itself (and that spaces is needed for switches, which have to be level); at best, the bridge could be a few inches higher than the platforms (which can't be raised because they're under the Garden and highway ramps). I believe this is the closest major (meaning, multiple lines with 10+ tracks) terminal train station to a movable bridge in the world and I'm not sure it's even close. The only alternative to a movable bridge here is closing the river to navigation (not going to happen) or building an underground station (should happen, won't any time soon).
A bike/ped bridge, on the other hand, can have grades up to 5% on either side (ADA limits) and can have curved approaches to increase the run of the grade. The Charlestown Bridge is 23' above mean high water; given tides the USCG might require additional clearance for upstream bridges but the Lechmere Viaduct isn't much higher; let's say conservatively a bridge needs 32' of clearance. The banks at North Point and near North Station are already 5 feet above water level, so 27', plus structure, so 30', accessed at 5 feet per 100, so 600' of run on either side. But that's to the center navigation channel; the sides can be lower. On the north side, this would mean starting a bridge adjacent to the existing North Bank bridge, which would hit the channel about 610 feet from the start. On the south side, this would mean landing just north of the Spaulding/MGH parking lot driveway or, if aiming west, somewhere in the Nashua Street park.
There's a very intriguing addition, which would be to extend the bridge southeast across the North Station tracks before landing under the Zakim. This is a nice value-add, although mitigated somewhat by the good bike/ped connection afforded by the North Washington Bridge which might be done next year. It would make additional sense, though, if it provided secondary access to the ends of the platforms at North Station, so someone in Northpoint could walk across the bridge and go straight to their train, rather than having to walk into North Station. This would probably mean a stairway and elevator at the end of each platform (not enough room for ramps) and even that would be tight.
The way I see it
It's going to be a lot easier to find the money and political support to tack a ped/bike path to this project vs a freestanding structure.
A separate structure is going to particularity expensive and complex with the all other infrastructure in the area. Far less complexity to just make one of the rail bridges have an additional ramp.
I agree a freestanding structure is more useful but only if it's built. I'd rather see a drawbridge path that's unusable 20% of the time vs an unfunded freestanding bridge which is unusable 100% of the time.
If the MBTA wants to include a freestanding bridge into this project, that's a great solution. But it needs to be included with this project, not an entirely separate request from a separate agency.
regarding terminals and
regarding terminals and movable bridges...
There aren't many, certainly. Usually, if a terminal was built at a river, it stopped at the "other" bank because it was too impractical or too expensive to bridge the river at that location (so they'd build the riverfront terminal on the other bank and run ferries & barges to the destination). Thinking of all the passenger and freight (coal) terminals on the NJ side of the Hudson River
If they did cross the river by whatever means (bridge, tunnel) it was usually because the city destination was big enough to go further in to be worthwhile (or worth it to be able to go through it to someplace else). Pennsylvania RR eventually tunneled from NJ to Manhattan and through to Queens and on to New England. Trains to/from points north for NYC had to come well south to Grand Central Terminal - which had been built at/near the then-northern extremes of NYC development (midtown).
South Station would have been one potential rival for the condition you described, though not as close as North Station. North Station - the shortest distance (on Google) from the end of one platform to draw span is about 330-350 FT. South Station - the shortest distance from the end of a platform to the 'Bass River' bridges (which previously were drawbridges) is about 1100 FT.
One potential rival for what you describe (but somewhat different) would be Penn Station Newark (NJ). It's much more of a through-station than a terminal, but some interesting twists. It's next to a river, elevated (tracks & platforms on two levels above the street), 8 tracks total (6 commuter and/or intercity rail, 2 rapid transit), with multiple lift spans matching the elevation of the station tracks - only about 350 FT away from the end of the platforms.
But...
...you can go right next door and there's a pedestrian walkway across the river to Paul Revere Park via the the locks in the dam. Why spend money adding another walkway to the railroad bridge?
I forgot the path along the
I forgot the path along the locks existed. I was thinking of crossing the level above in the building, but I don't think that's public access and not very ADA-useful.
The locks are very narrow, and posted (at least in 2017 Google view) for NO BIKES.
Bikes
You're allowed to bring bikes over the locks, but you must dismount and walk them (for once, actually a pretty good idea here). They'll yell at you over the loudspeakers if you try to ride.
For me, a good place for a
For me, a good place for a ped/bike bridge to be around there (and not directly in conjunction with RR bridge) would be a little further east - in the gap between the Zakim Bridge and the Leverett ramps, crossing from the riverbank/walkway just west of the Zakim and the State Police Marine unit to the North Bank Pedestrian Bridge that is an elevated walkway between North Point Park & Paul Revere Park.
Anyway, that is where I think it would be good to be.
I have no idea if it would be practical to build it there.
Thanks Kamala!
.
Crowd-control precludes a
Crowd-control precludes a pedestrian and bike crossing, no?