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The Filene's Memorial Hole: Is the developer just a big schmuck?
By adamg on Mon, 03/08/2010 - 9:12pm
Vincent Price as ruined landmark: Before the remains were Christoishly covered up.
Steven Roth, the New York real-estate mogul who gave us the Hole, told an audience of Columbia architecture students last week that he deliberately pulled a similar stunt in New York in the hopes of gaining concessions from the city:
Why did I do nothing? Because I was thinking in my own awkward way, that the more the building was a blight, the more the governments would want this to be redeveloped; the more help they would give us when the time came.
And they did.
Of course, nothing gets Tom Menino's Boston up quite like a New York developer pulling stuff like that. The Globe reports Hizzonah has directed the BRA (which, remember, can do pretty much anything it wants) to start looking at taking the whole site over by eminent domain. Sure, the city's supposed to at least have some pretense it's taking the land for some greater good - maybe they can finally build that downtown swimming hole. Wonder what Roth's Boston partner on the deal, John Hynes, thinks?
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Comments
"the city's supposed to at
"the city's supposed to at least have some pretense it's taking the land for some greater good"
I'm pretty sure giving the hole to another developer is for the greater good
Greater good
That's a pretty low bar in this case. A swamp would be a greater good.
Hey, I've got an idea... they could move city hall there!
Menino should do it.
Pay the developer something near what the land is worth, and seize it because it's a hazardous, ugly, economically damaging, unsanitary blight in the center of the city. This was part of the reason the BRA was created in the first place, wasn't it? DTX is an economically troubled area, and this spot is one particularly glaring reason for the blight. Open and shut case.
This would be a good way for Menino to win back a lot of respect- but does he have the fortitude to take on a rich guy from New York? I don't know.u
What would you put there?
We have hundreds of luxury condos for sale, 15% office vacancy rate and retail is in the tank. Maybe a small/medium sized hotel? Could you get financing without the developer begging for aid from the city/state?
Let's get back to basics -
Let's get back to basics - how about a supermarket, so people who live, work and study in the city, can get a bag of groceries on the way home, without having to travel to Prudential to shop at Shaws's or Trader Joe's? There's absolutely nowhere in or around DTX where youu can get a loaf of fresh bread! And no, I'm not going to the North End, either!
Technically there are
Technically there are supermarkets near by, in Chinatown. There aren't any bread loaves, but there are lots of noodles and cheap basil!
Buying bread in downtown Boston
Doesn't Lambert's Marketplace sell bread?
Carpetbagger bread
With a name like Lambert's on the Commons, they're obviously from away. Maybe from that place with Central Parks.
Chinatowm and Lambert's
Chinatown and Lambert's doesn't cut it. Those are markets, not a supermarket like the kind you have at the Back Bay Shaws. For me, a supermarket has large areas divided by produce, bakery, meat and dairy. Lambert's has pre-packaged bread. It's great if you want fresh fruit or veg, but apart from that, there is not much variety.
Lambert's is real deal.
Lamberts is an OFD (Originally from Dorchester) merchant. Fair play to them on their entry to Boston proper.
I don't think so...
You're thinking of a different Lambert's: http://www.lambertsfruit.com/
Same family, different company?
The Lambert's Marketplace on the Common is an outgrowth of their former fruit stand at the Filene's corner, which was forced to close when Filene's itself closed. Since both Lambert's are in similar lines of business, I wonder if they started out as one company.
Don't Plan For the Long Term Based on the Short Term
Vacancy rates are a little high right now, but they were incredibly low in the not so distant past. I'd say build housing now in anticipation that demand will rebound. I mean, we're still in the top three for highest cost of living in the country. That would seem to indicate housing and/or office space is still needed.
Financing
Are you going to finance it all by yourself? The banks certainly won't.
If menino pulls the plug on the current plan then we'll just be stuck with an open hole for just as long, if not longer.
Who's financing the planned Liberty Mutual skyscraper
in the Back Bay, for which Menino wants to grant tens of millions in tax breaks? In any event, the developer's story is suspect- he appears to be attempting some sort of extortion. And are the banks really so stingy still, despite all the bailouts? All construction has not ceased in the city and surrounding area- just this parcel. Like someone said above, seize it, fill it in and put a damn merry-go-round on it for the time being. Then sell it as soon as possible to someone with integrity, financing, and a plan.
Liberty Mutual and some banks
Liberty Mutual is financing it themselves and they will get some financing from banks because there is little risk. Liberty Mutual is controlling, building, and occupying almost the entire building.
Compare that to the Filene's project, which has no commercial tenants, no hotel chain willing to commit to it, the housing market is in the crapper. Plus, there are high construction costs.
See the difference?
Also, I glad you bring up that Menino is giving tax breaks for Liberty Mutual. Isn't that what the Vornado exec said he is waiting for? You might also note that Liberty Mutual was threatening to move their headquarters up until those tax breaks were granted.... extortion indeed....
So you think a tax break will entice the banks to finance it?
Or motivate a hotel chain to get on board? Seems hopeless- too bad nobody thought of this before they tore down Burnham's last building.
Anyway, like I said- seize it by eminent domain and fill it in. Make it a park. Don't let a couple of bad apples spoil the whole area.
Heard at the meeting, "OK
Heard at the meeting, "OK boys, take it by ebbinet dobane."
Wasn't there a scummy Boston developer that Menino could have gotten to do the same thing. I'll bet the jobs at Filene's Basement aren't looked down on now as much as when this whole boondoggle started. They were only decent paying jobs with benefits, whose going to miss them?
Droppin' the DTX ball over and over
Filene's never should have been torn down in the first place. Daniel Burnham must be rolling in his grave. Sometimes I go up to the top of the Arch St. garage and just look at the gaping hole. It's depressing as hell. Macy*s should have moved in in 2006, like they did in every other historic flagship of the companies they took over. The building was a monument to the retail history (in all its glory) of DTX. The Jordan Marsh store was nothing special to begin with, especially once it was gutted and reduced in order to prepare for another marvelous DTX idea: Lafayette Place.
So we're stuck now with this hole and a fence with pretty graphics of what should be there. Yeah, thanks Vornado. Hopefully the BRA follows through and gains control. Based on the damage that has already been done and will never be undone, I think a supermarket is a great idea for the area! Heck, they could/would even have T access to make shopping easier by using that now-pointless "shopping concourse." Plop a hotel on top and voila.
How bout reasonably-priced
How bout reasonably-priced (under 900/bedroom) rental units? You know, so yuppies/middle class people could establish a foothold there?
For my money
I don't know what should go in there long-term, but what shouldn't be there is a whacking great hole that's dragging what's left of the neighborhood down with it. If I were king, I'd seize the land and fill in the hole for now, put grass over it and call it a park, with the understanding that the park will go away when a responsible developer can be found. It'd get rid of the eyesore at least.
Best Idea Yet
And the cheapest. And the one that would most beautify the area.
Never happen in a million years.
It is a great idea and it's
It is a great idea and it's actually been considered. There was a design contest within the design/architecture social circles calling for any landscaping project to fill the hole. People came up with really cool ideas from waterfalls, to wave pools, to parks.
All we know is that the fence needs to come down. It's so imposing. It makes the area so claustrophobic and drags down the mood, rain or shine. At this point, filling it in and laying grass down with a diagonal path to Arch St. would be a breath of fresh air for DTX, literally and metaphorically.
Odd
Steven Roth wants a subsidy from the city of Boston? What would have ever given him the idea that Boston would consider such a thing?? Oh, right, I forgot; Mayor Menino gave JP Morgan Chase millions when they relocated to the Seaport and he's promising $16 million to Liberty Mutual Insurance Company to build in Back Bay - you know, that blighted neighborhood between the South End and Beacon Hill?
Sounds like Roth understands quite well how development works in the city. He was just stupid for admitting out loud what we all know is true.
Expect John Rosenthal and Joe Fallon to be next in line.
I am not a lawyer, but I
I am not a lawyer, but I don't see eminent domain being used. First they would have to demonstrate that there is some "public use" for the taking. Taking it from one private developer to give to another is a risky proposition and I have to imagine Vornado would sue.
Secondly, the City would have to compensate Vornado for the taking. The Vornado team paid $100 million for the site in January 2007. I don't know how they determine "fair market value" but even if it is half what Vornado paid for it, that's a lot of money. Assuming it's the BRA doing the taking, I don't think they have that kind of cash available.
ED
Public use is a broad concept and, as decided recently by the supreme court, can include taking the property from one private owner and giving it to another for development (not to mention the fact that the BRA has done just that many a time in the past anyway in the interest of elimenating "blight"). However, I tend to agree with you on the cash (and the certainty of a lawsuit). Although the city would only have to pay for the best use of the property, it would still undoubtedly be in the tens of millions and, given the dearth of current financing available to private developers, would probably have to be carried by the City/BRA (even if financed with a bond of some sort) for a period of time until a developer could be found to buy it from the BRA. Nevertheless, TM has done some brash things in the past and I wouldn't sleep too easy if I were Vornado.
A lawsuit that the city would undoubtedly win.
I mean, the New London, CT case that established government's right to seize properties for "economic development" involved forcing people out of their homes, for crying out loud. This would not not be seizing residences, but a friggin hole in the ground and some half-demolished, unsafe looking skeletal structures. The public interest here could not be clearer.
But how much is it worth now?
Fair market value (as anyone with an underwater mortgage will tell you) does not depend on what you paid in the past but rather what someone else would pay for it now.
To clarify my comment from
To clarify my comment from above, it's not that I don't think a good case can be made for using eminent domain, it's that I don't see this Mayor and the BRA using it in this case.
As one commenter noted, the "public use" argument was used successfully in New London. But also keep in mind that the end result of that mess was that by some accounts over $80 million in public funds was spent and then finally Pfizer announced that they were pulling out of New London.
I think that is the City's biggest worry - if they take it by eminent domain, then it becomes their problem. They would have to spend tens of millions of dollars to get it back from Vornado. The City may very well win a lawsuit but I would guess it won't be cheap to do so. The City won't use it for a true public use (like a park) because they won't get any money back. If it goes to another developer, that developer will certainly propose something large in order to get a return on their investment, and they will have the same financing issues facing all large scale development in this region.
I think it would be cool if the City did something bold and brash but in my opinion it is just posturing to try to get Vornado to commit to some sort of phasing plan to start the construction. That was where the negotiations were going earlier in the week before this latest flap.
Why domain Filene's...
When we could domain all the land that Harvard's sucking on in Allston? Seriously, Harvard took all that property tax paying land, and pays a measly PILOT (sometimes), and has turned the neighborhood into crap, and won't even be executing its lofty crimson plans on the area. Seriously, Menino should domain Allston and turn it back into a real neighborhood. Or force Harvard to pay property taxes on it.
Harvard does pay taxes on it
Assuming you are talking about the commercial/industrial properties in Allston, Harvard does pay taxes on it. When and if they develop something for institutional purposes the land is then rezoned as institutional property, and Harvard and the City negotiate a PILOT agreement. Until then Harvard pays the same commercial tax as any other land owner would.
Bravo.
Bravo.
Copy of Menino's letter to Roth
Here.
f-i-l-e-n-e-s
It may not be popular to say so but good for Menino. Whether anything comes from it, at least he did something.
(BTW just nitpicking, the 'help me' part was David Hedison, carry on)