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Governor booed out of LGBT event
By adamg on Thu, 04/14/2016 - 8:36am
The Rainbow Times reports on the chilly reception Gov. Baker got at an LGBT networking event at the Copley Marriott last night when he wouldn't come right out and support a bill banning discrimination against transgender people in public places.
CommonWealth, meanwhile, assures us: Pssst: Baker won’t veto a transgender rights bill.
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Comments
Ugh
Yes, because the input of (a) people whose lives will be affected by this bill and (b) Herald commenters are of equal value
Herald commenters?
I thought he was going to ask GE.
What about
The business community having to face frivolous lawsuits over supposed violations of this new law? Every time a discrimination law gets passed, plaintiff's lawyers pop a cork.
O_o
O_o
That's definitely who we need to worry about
Businesses. Not the people who are systematically discriminated against, and to whom the governor just extended a cordial middle finger, but the businesses who are going to face frivolous lawsuits. Think of the tiny hikes to their liability insurance rates! Oh, the sheer mindboggling horror! Won't someone think of the poor corporations?
(If your first reaction to hearing about an antidiscrimination law is "well now I might get sued for just doing my NORMAL, EVERY DAY things!" let me suggest that you are probably the intended target of the bill)
Consider yourself lucky if
Consider yourself lucky if you have never had to deal with a lousy student, employee, or coworker who was a member of a protected class, knew it, and took advantage of it.
I've encountered more of that than actual discrimination. Just this morning my wife was pulling her hair about about a minority student in her class that deserves a failing grade, but she can't give one without sabotaging her own career.
YOU'VE encountered more?
Given that you yourself are evidently not in a protected class, it doesn't surprise me one little bit that you haven't encountered much "actual discrimination" - or recognized it when you did. It isn't directed at you, therefore it isn't happening (or maybe just isn't "actual").
Charlie Faker strikes again
This is what happens when you elect a Republican, even a fake "moderate" Republican. Yeah I know Martha Coakley was a poor campaigner, and thought it was beneath her to shake hands at Fenway Park. Meanwhile Baker ran those ads with his happy family smiling on a sunny day. "Vote for me because my family says I'm a nice guy" said the Faker.
But on matters of policy, she would have been far superior to Faker.
Chuck you Farley.
Actually looking at the bill?
He should automatically support it sight unseen, because that response caters to a protected class, and keeps you in tight with the PC gestapo.
I don't miss Deval, let's not ask Baker to start acting like the previous governor.
Baker had a choice...
...represent the citizens of the commonwealth or appease his party on a national level. One can not do both.
women oppose it
Dirty secret is that women oppose the bill.
Dirty secret is
You don't know anything.
source: I know many women
If you are Rosa Parks
Go into the whole foods ladies room w your wanger out and take it to the supreme court. Otherwise you're just another internet tough guy.
Do You Openly Display Yours In Mens Rooms?
Excuse me while I whip this out
There are absolutely men who wave it around in men's rooms to get their jollies
Just Because You Do That, It Doesn't Make It Acceptable
well that's rather odd...
45 years of going to Mens Rooms and I've never seen that thank god.
There are many freaks in the world and some of them do find their way to public restrooms. The weirdness they do there that I have witnessed has mainly revolved around drugs, yelling at no one particular and urinary aim issues. Quite happily I've never been put into the position of being able to confirm their actual gender due to visual confirmation (yay!).
Of the transgender people that I have met, I don't think any of them are the kind to do that in a public restroom. They mainly seem interested in getting rid of waste and getting the hell out of the skanky public restroom. I really don;t understand why this is so difficult, but having the longest running Republican Speaker of the House revealed to have been trying out for the pastor position at Our Lady of Perpetual Buggery is no big whoop.
PLOT TWIST
I'm assigned female.
I AM an internet tough guy, though, for sure.
!
.
*Citation Needed
*Citation Needed
see below
I love how theres 30 comments here and nobody addressing the reality. It's women freaking out about this so it does not compute.
Again, citation needed
All I hear is men freaking out and saying it's on the behalf of women. News flash--the women's rooms all have stalls. Nobody is showing anyone anything. There are already trans-gendered people using stalls in both men's and women's restrooms. You would never notice them because they fit right in with everyone else using that restroom. Do you your business and get out and stop judging everyone else.
Can we call you
It's not the transgender you dope it's the regular pervs who are going to use this to get at women. Can wecall you when some 12 yo girl gets raped by a guy doing his business in the bathroom?
That perv won't ALREADY go into the bathroom?
Really?
True
But this makes it a hell of a lot easier! 'Hmm today, I'm feel like being a woman, I mean why not!'
are you a real person
.
It's no easier
That sign that says "Ladies" or "Senoritas" or "Hers" isn't like an impenetrable force field
Not how the law works
The definition of Gender Identity already on the books prevents you or other trolls from declaring a gender identity just to be a jerk. Look up the definition of Gender Identity in the Mass General Laws if you're actually concerned, and not just trolling.
Actually.
Plenty of sexual assault survivors don't support bans of trans people from bathrooms. YOWZA!!!
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2016/03/28/a-sexual-assault-survivor-explai...
"women freaking out"
I've yet to see a woman freaking out about this. I see YOU freaking out about this. Are you a woman? Are you plural? No to either? Then stop talking about what "women" are doing. Your bigotry-induced hallucinations are not reality.
I'm a woman and I am NOT
I'm a woman and I am NOT freaking out about this. I have ZERO issues with transgendered human beings using the same bathroom that I am in. I have so much more to worry about. like having to look in the stalls for a rapey cis male before I go pee.
when you say "women oppose the bill"...
you seem to imply that all, or most, women oppose this bill.
curious where you are getting that fact from?
because i am a CIS woman who supports folks peeing in whatever bathroom they want. and i have lots of other women friends and family who feel the same way.
urination and defecation are natural acts that need to be performed by the human body. bigotry against transgender people is a choice, and shows an unnatural obsession with what body parts one is packing below the belt. unless i am invited to look at them or touch them, frankly it's not my business.
Women vs Trans
Some women simply don't want men in the women's bathroom with them because it makes them uncomfortable.
I don't know how many but I'm pretty sure this is the stumbling block. I think it's an interesting problem because it's a clash of "biology is a social construct" ideologies.
On the one hand you have hyper-consciousness of women's sexual safety. On the other you have a basically unlimited movement for choice in sexual identity. Both can't win.
So, People Born Genetically As Female, But Transition To Male...
… and therefore, outwardly appear to be men — you want to force them to use the ladies room?!!
How would you actually go about enforcing such a law?
So
That right there is a feeling. An opinion. Not fact.
You don't speak for me.
How are you stopping the "pervs" that go into the women's room today? Answer: you're not. This bill won't change that in the least.
i was raped in a public bathroom.
so it bothers me a little when people try to pass off bigoted anti-LBGTQ bathroom bills as if it would have made any difference at all. i have never been afraid of a transgendered individual. statistically they have more to fear from me than i do from them.
i couldn't tell you if i was raped in a men's room or a woman's room. it actually doesn't even matter. i wasn't raped because i was in a bathroom. i was raped there because it was convenient for the offender, and because he was compelled to commit a sexual crime against me.
i sympathize with folks who say they are uncomfortable, i really do. and i sympathize with anybody who is afraid. but the reality is that we cannot always and should not always legislate for people's comfort. we must legislate for what is right, and what keeps people safe. and the reality is that a transgender individual is at more risk for using a restroom that does not coincide with their outward expression of gender identify than using one that might, or might not, coincide with their hidden and private genitalia
Sames sexes do rape one another.
For evidence, just look at prisons as a start.
well there you go
To prevent any and all possible assaults or dicey conduct all bathrooms should become oners.
You never know when someone, ANYONE is going to get all rapey on you when you're pinching a loaf.
Transwomen are women.
Just like transmen are men.
Also: I've not heard of any cases of women being attacked by transwomen in bathrooms. However transwomen HAVE been attacked when using the men's room. It's a very real safety issue for transgender people.
And for another data point, I'm a CIS-woman and I wholeheartedly support transgender people being able to use the bathroom of the gender they identify with.
You know the answer to that
From his fevered imagination, where else?
Good
He got a small taste of what's coming to him. More to come if he continues to choose his bigoted party's platform over human rights in the Commonwealth that he's supposed to be serving.
(seriously, Massachusetts, you elect a Republican, what do you think is gonna happen? Stupid stupid stupid)
Seriously, you have Martha Coakley as a candidate,
what did you think was gonna happen, Democratic Party?
"Same as it ever was"
My thoughts exactly!
There were other candidates who were much better to face Baker. I liked Juliette Kayyem. I didn't agree with some of what she said, but thought she would have done a much better job against Baker. When the dems started trying to push her out and talk up Coakley, I knew it was over.
Good point, but...
...I'm not a Democrat, and I didn't vote for Baker OR Coakley.
She Was A Flawed Candidate, Mindlessly Crowned By Her Party
( just like they've done with Mrs. Clinton )
Human rights?
You mean human rights, like the right to privacy? How do you discern a genuine transgender from some creep who is posing as one? Its already happened...
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/wa-man-women-bathroom-test-tran...
So disingenuous
First, he wasn't "posing" as a transgendered individual. He was intentionally flaunting the fact that he was a non-transgender individual but choosing to go into the women's room because he ignorantly supposed the new state law in WA allowed him access (it doesn't).
The state Human Rights Commission in Washington put out a statement detailing exactly what he did was wrong and that if he had filed a complaint on the business for throwing him out of the women's room because he truly believed himself to be transgender, then the subsequent investigation would have either revealed him to be a liar or the business to have made a mistake which the commission would use as a learning tool, not a punitive action unless the action of the business was the egregious one. ( http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2016/02/29/3754688/washington-transgender-... )
Therein lies the problem
How do you prevent people from abusing this "bathroom bill?" Second, pervs/creeps/whatever you wanna call them WILL pose as transgender to exploit these laws.
So are we going to solve these issues of "ignorance" or pure disregard for the law after the fact? After someone gets filmed or harassed while in supposedly a private space, at which that points its too late? Damage done? You're being incredibly naive if you don't think this will happen. Use some common sense here.
Nothing to Exploit
If you look up the definition of Gender Identity in the Mass General Laws, you will find it already has a clause stating that claiming an identity for improper purposes is already accounted for. If it's currently illegal for pervs to do their thing, it will *still* be illegal for them afterwards.
Simple!
It's really pretty simple. Most people just simply aren't the kind of dillweeds of the type that you are imagining, and in fact of the type that you seem to be yourself. Most people do not have any interest in using a bathroom in order to sexually prey upon others. Those who do are called (among other things) antisocial, and they are neither restrained by laws stating "you are only allowed to use the bathroom corresponding to the gender on your birth certificate, regardless of your current identity, appearance and/or plumbing", nor are they encouraged by laws stating that people may use the bathroom of the gender that they identify with. Don't you get it? Are you really so stupid that you believe that if a man is a sexual predator who wants to prey on women and girls, he'll say to himself, "Oh man, I'd love to go into that bathroom and prey on some women and girls, but gosh there's a law against me going into that bathroom so I won't do that"?
Don't you understand that if
Don't you understand that if trans men are forced to use the women's room, it means dudes who look like regular dudes are now supposed to be going into the women's room? How does that work for you? Is that supposed to make women feel more safe? Now, if a cisgendered dude intent on something nefarious wants to enter a women's room, it's actually easier for him to do so, since TRANS MEN LOOK LIKE MEN, AND THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE THERE. The cognitive dissonance is boggling.
Sorry, Charlie
The days of the "moderate republican" have been over for decades.
That is, unless you want to start a movement to kick the bigots out of your party and once again make it one that's just wrong, not raving loony. I'm all for that ...
Republicans
don't really have much to do with the US branch of the Monster Raving Loony Party, I'm sure. "You know it makes sense!"
He's trying, somewhat
Charlie Baker makes me furious in his actions with the T and in refusing to fully buck the party line when it comes to equal rights. But he's still markably better then most national republicans and even some local democrats.
That said, the reason why the GOP is in such sorry shape is that the [GOP Primary] voters have rejected anyone even slightly moderate (like Baker) in favor of foaming-at-the-mouth wingnuts opposed to everything and everyone who isn't a white rich male.
If you want the Republican party to return to normal people like Baker need to continue being elected into office.
Too little, too late
And then maybe in thirty or forty or fifty years, some crumbs will drop from the table, and we'll have human rights in the Commonwealth? Sorry, but we're getting a great demonstration this year (from the Democratic Party) about what happens when you listen to politicians who tell you "Yes, but later, but next year, but tomorrow." Tomorrow never comes. The gradualist approach has been thoroughly discredited by those who have abused the public's trust. It has no credibility any more.
Mass Republicans: A template for the nation
I have to say that the Commonwealth has a pretty good record of electing sensible Republicans. Weld was great until he got bored. Mitt was decent until his eyes started wandering from Massachusetts. Charlie has made crossing the aisle look cool.
Baker can't stick his head in the sand and pretend that, even though he's a Republican, he has no connection to the national party. Going out and engaging the wacko segment and showing them that there is a more sensible way does not make him a traitor to us back here in MA.
or rather
Or rather the state causes them to run middle-right while the rest of the country is at the far right (and pulling the goalposts with them).
Indeed
Saying "He's pretty reasonable, for a Republican" is damning with faint praise, wouldn't you say?
Well...
I'm not a Republican and I generally support anything that adds to individual freedom, but there are serious concerns one can have about this bill without being a "Wingnut." In fact, I would suggest it is the advocates that belong in that box.
What test does one have to pass to "change their gender identity"? Is it a fluid thing? Can I legally wake up one day identifying as a man and the next as a woman? Do I need a note form a doctor saying I'm identifying as a woman today? Do I need to register as such with a governmental agency? Or does everyone just have to take my word for it moment to moment?
Women should have strong reservations regarding this bill. How many articles do we see on UHub of males performing sexual acts on themsemves on the T? Seems like at least 1-2 per week. This bill will allow those degenerates to claim they are identifying as women today and stroll into the womens locker room at your local gym and hang out naked. The gym will be sued if they take any action so long as the "woman" does not commit a criminal act such as touching another woman or publicly stroking themself. The "woman" will simply have to go into the shower or toilet stall to do perform their sexual act on themself. How many of you will be happy to bring your pre-teen or young daughter with you to the gym?
Seems to me it's pretty reasonable for Baker to at least wait to read the bill before he commits to support it. Only a wingnut would do otherwise.
Hey now
If we're going to have a Concern Trolling Olympics, we'd damn well better start it with a proper torch lighting.
I suggest using yourself as fuel for the great Olympic flame.
typical
You cant argue against common sense, so the next easiest thing is to name call, disparage and demagogue. Right out of the Alinksy playbook!.
Typical
Great claims require great evidence. And that that can be claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
In short,
In a thread where we talk about the humans rights of disparaged people, poor you.
apples and oranges
Anyone who goes into any restroom and performs a criminal act will be liable for arrest just as they are now - just as a cisman would be today if he somehow got around the impenetrable "Ladies Room" sign on the door and did his criminal acts in there. This has nothing to do with the vast vast vast majority of trans people, who, like everyone else in the world, largely want to get in and out of a public restroom as fast as humanly possible.
You know there's an extremely
You know there's an extremely well documented and fairly stringent set of hoops to jump through to change your gender identity, right? Including yes, doctors note, publicly identifying and presenting as that gender for a certain amount of time, publicly changing your name (and announcing it in the paper! So everyone can know you used to be a man!), etc. The problem with a lot of you so called reasonable skeptics is you're bringing up questions that just show how little research you've actually done and how little knowledge you have, and it looks like concern trolling and deliberate obtuseness.
I really don't want to scare you...
I really don't want to scare you, but in women's bathrooms and changing rooms today...
..there are lesbians. Yes, yes there are.
I'm terribly sorry about those pearls all over the floor. Next time don't clutch so hard.
Lesbians! Lesbians! Degenerates! Degenerates! EEEEEEK!!!!!
A modest proposal -let them wear diapers
I propose a law where all lesbians are banned from women's rooms because some of them may sexually assault other women. Also all gay men should be banned from men's rooms for the same reason.
Additionally all straight people should be banned from all restrooms because they may have a temporary gay episode that includes sexual assault, as sometimes happens with straight people.
And of course all bisexuals should be banned from all restrooms for obvious reasons.
All of these banned groups can simply wear diapers and the problems will be solved. In addition it will create jobs for the diaper industry.
I am sure the good people of law enforcement and the justice system can sort all this out.
Just common sense isn't it?
Rude
It doesn't help the LBGT cause that they boo people that disagree with their opinion.
No, YOU'RE rude (and ignorant)
Direct action and expressions of sheer outrage by the LGBT community over their continued oppression by the establishment is the only way to achieve the ultimate goals of equality, dignity and respect. A polite golf clap in response to the political leadership's pandering to national right wing extremists by maliciously slapping you in the face seems unlikely to effect positive change for the community.
What you're saying is those uppity queers should know their place. Next thing you know, the coloreds will want to share the same lunch counter.
Gross, Baker.
How is "please make it harder for people to be assholes to and/or physically harm me" something you need to "talk to all parties involved" about? Hello? WE JUST WANT TO PEE.
Also, shut up, Caleb Stewart.
He was expecting to do what, pander more to trans panic types? Also, did Caleb maybe forget that the bill this jackoff is opposing is literally about making it illegal to discriminate against trans people in public? It's not fuckin' controversial- or at least, it shouldn't be. So for those of us to whom it applies, or those of us who care about people to whom it applies, yeah, we're going to get pretty emotional about it. Anger is a legitimate response to oppression.
I too am opposed to it
Much like marriage, I'd like the state to get out of the classification game. Regarding bathrooms there should be no indication of gender on any restroom owned by the Commonwealth. Why should it matter how I "identify"? Both genders use the toilet the same way so stop classifying restrooms as being gender specific entirely.
The state should not classify genders. Period.
Public Toilets? Ew.
I would like to see unisex restrooms, but single occupant only. If that means even with 4 or 5 such in a row [which still is less than the wall of stalls or urinals] and are getting longer lines, so be it.
Grendel's Den in Harvard
Grendel's Den in Harvard Square has multiperson unisex bathrooms. It works out just fine.
MassPort
Hanscom Field in Bedford, MA has a unisex, multi-stall bathroom on the first floor which is intended for a large portion of the building. It works fine.
Hint: No one wants to see you pee irrespective of your gender (born or otherwise). And if they do, the little icon on the door isn't going to stop them.
I don't necessarily disagree
But "just pretend it doesn't exist" doesn't solve for the discrimination issues we're seeing.
Baker schmaker
Both sides are just as loony. Baker is a closeted bigot and pussyfooting. Smells like one term.
Oh Yeah
You are aware he has the highest approval rating of any of the 50 governors in this country, right?
You might not like it but Baker is currently a rock-star in Massachusetts. He'll easily win a second term even if he pisses off groups like this. Sadly, there aren't enough people who put LGBT rights or the MBTA as their top concern.
That Only Shows How Disliked All The Other Governors Are
Sure, he's more popular than Rick Snyder or Paul LePage, but so is Satan.
Yeah, But
Satan isn't planning on running for office in 2018. It's going to be Baker vs. Some Democrat. Unless that dem is Elizabeth Warren or Obama, Baker will win reelection.
No, Satan's busy running for president this year
n/t
The Choice Is Often The Devil You Know, Or The Devil You Don't
Don't be so sure
The times, they are a-changin'.
Curses!
Damn you, Baker, you've foiled my nefarious plot to get people with lady parts into a men's room stall! Foiled again! (twists handlebar mustache)
Keep your politics out of the john, you RINO (expletive).
Except....
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/wa-man-women-bathroom-test-tran...
I hate it to break it to you, the left is trying to get politics into 'the john' by demanding transgender people have access to any bathroom they'd like. I mean who cares about the right to privacy.
Let's give logic a try
Things people with dicks do: Pee standing up, poop sitting down
Things people with vaginas do: Pee sitting down, poop sitting down
Apparatuses found in men's rooms: Device for peeing standing up, device for peeing sitting down, device for pooping sitting down. The latter two are found in locked stalls with walls on all sides.
Apparatuses found in women's rooms: See latter two and explanation above.
People who pee standing up:
1) Have dicks
2) Are thus restricted to the men's room.
People who pee or poop sitting down:
1) Could have either a dick or a vagina
2) Can ostensibly use either restroom, but are limited to the apparatus that is surrounded by walls on all sides.
Riddle me as to where the breach to privacy comes in.
Here...
http://www.dailywire.com/news/330/university-toronto-dumps-transgender-b...
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/wa-man-women-bathroom-test-tran...
And as far as privacy, entering a bathroom KNOWING that there is not going to be some creep pretending to be a "woman" so he can creep on women, is privacy.
I have been following the
I have been following the comments and while I try to stay out of this, I agree with you. Toronto already had a problem : http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/10/06/u-of-t-bathrooms-voyeurism_n_825....
I like Gov. Baker and am tired of any objection being silenced. There has been no discussion, nor will there ever be. Even on this blog you cannot bring up a genuine concern with out being shut down.
The louder people try to drown out any type of discussion, the less they are heard.
I stopped listening a long time ago.
Did you read that article?
The U of T had gender neutral bathrooms in the dorm. They had an issue with someone taking pictures over the shower door so they changed it to offer women-only, men-only, AND gender neutral bathrooms on each floor, so people could choose which they felt most comfortable in.
I work on a hotel-based convention each year and we do the same thing by designating some of the existing bathrooms as gender neutral. So each person can choose the type of facility that works best for them. Chaos has failed to ensue.
Exactly! It didn't work out
Exactly! It didn't work out just the way they thought it would, did it?
No one ever said anything about chaos, so I'm not sure where you got that.
Your article does not say what you think it says
Your article does not say what you think it says.
Also, there's no "discussion" to be had. It's an exact copy of the reaction conservatives had to emerging gay rights twenty years ago, except someone has crossed out "gay" and scribbled "trans" on the playbook in red crayon. It's a transparently political ploy that the GOP trots out whenever it needs to mobilize its voters, and there's exactly as much substance to this "debate" as there was about "gay panic" or DADT. You can wrap it in whatever flowery prose you want, but make no mistake: you're advocating for the abrogation of rights for a small minority of people, and you're doing it out of bigotry. You're on the wrong side of history, and history is not going to be kind to you.
I disagree.
I disagree.
I don't support discrimination because of anyone's anything. I also like to look at all sides of an issue and not jump to conclusions. I also refrain from calling people bigots, etc especially when I don't know the person.
If my reasoned stance bothers you, that's your problem. I prefer my 7 yr old daughter to have the right to use a girls only bathroom, that is all. If you have a dick, stay out of that bathroom. Make all the bathrooms you want, label them whatever you want, have a blast.
Why?
Why do people with dicks have to stay out of the same bathroom as your daughter?
Do you think they're going to use their dick on your daughter?
Do you think your daughter is going to see the dick and you're going to have to explain to her how some people are different?
Do you worry that your daughter will want one of her own?
Forget it, Kaz, it's Chinatown
We've retreated into "Won't someone think of the children?!" territory here; you're not going to talk anyone out of their own ridiculous prejudices. I'll just channel Louis CK on this.
"How am I supposed to explain this to my kids?!"
"I dunno, it's your shitty kid, you fuckin' tell 'em, why is that anyone else's problem? You want to make these guys' lives tough because you don't want to talk to your ugly child for five minutes?"
Creeps come in all stripes
Newsflash--You can never enter a public bathroom KNOWING that it is creep-free no matter whether this law passes or not. But we have laws against the behavior you fear, no matter the gender or presentation of the perpetrator.
Show some class if you want
Show some class if you want to be respected, Baker audience. Stop being unreasonable. You would be furious and upset if someone booed you off stage.
Baker's Lack Of Respect For His Audience Triggered The Boos
He made the audience furious and upset.
Actually he didn't
Baker only upset the first 3 rows of green clad activists who camped out in front of the stage. The rest of the audience was listening and interested in what he had to say.
And, it's unfortunate they
And, it's unfortunate they didn't get to hear what they came to hear.
I guess their interests don't count to the first 3 rows of people.
Were you there?
Do tell us all about your participation.
I am going by the comments
I am going by the comments posted, are you?
Did you attend? Please, do tell...
I'm not claiming I know who did what at the meeting
I'm not claiming I know who did what at the meeting. You are. You're claiming knowledge you don't have, and I called you on it.
Nope... Patricia didn't claim
Nope... Patricia didn't claim anything, Boston_bloke did.
I was there. I work in
I was there. I work in procurement so I actually found the governor's speech useful. Reps from the National Gay & Lesbian Chamber of Commerce were present and introduced me to the resources they have available. This was a BUSINESS event.
Just because those in front of the camera were booing and making a scene does not mean that the rest of the 1000 people at the event had issues. Yes, most of us are liberal and/or Democrat. It's a room filled with LGBT community. That doesn't mean we don't want to hear from the man who runs the state even if his policies don't align 100% with our own concerns.
Freedom of speech is a two way street. We also have to listen to others, even those with whom we might not agree. Shouting down the governor isn't just immature, it's counterproductive. The governor was going to meet with the crowd after his speech. That was an opportunity for the transgendered community to interact with him. Instead they shouted him out of the room.
YOU show some class! Or maybe some empathy?
You don't think the LGBT community gets "booed off the stage" by ignoramuses like you every single day of our lives?
It's this very sentiment that's enabled the southern sweep of anti-gay and anti-trans legislation. Basically they're saying, "Oh, so you bitches want and got your gay goddamn marriage? Well fags, now you're getting a whooping for getting out of line."
That's it in a nutshell.
Been there and got my whooping many times and guess what? I'm still here and ain't going no fucking where so suck it, snowflake.
wow
I don't think anyone is suggesting that ridiculous rhetoric you are spewing.
But'cha ARE, Blanche!
You, all by yourself, have posted enough "ridiculous rhetoric" in this thread to choke a billy goat. You need to either STFU for a while to cut down on the volume, or STFU about whether said "ridiculous rhetoric" exists.
Really?
Please reference the derogatory terms or swear words I've used. Also, please reference any blasphemy or telling others to "STFU." I'm sure if we counted the number of posts, you've got me beat. Ain't that pot calling the kettle black...
Oh, I see
So, you get to decide what's derogatory, do you? You are a piece of work. Please stop being so hysterically fearful of nonexistent problems and using your fears to abridge the rights of others.
Never forget
..shitbag Charlie opened his 2010 campaign making lewd jokes about the "bathroom bill", mocking transgendered people as perverts, and continued to promise a veto even after Tisei came out in support of expanding legal protection for TS people.
http://m.wickedlocal.com/article/20100429/NEWS/304299720
Thrilled that my personal safety is finally being taken srsly...
...but apparently I'm only really at risk of being raped in a public bathroom. Never have I heard so much concern for "think of the women!!!!!"
Unlike you, I'm not thinking
Unlike you, I'm not thinking of myself.
I'm thinking of young girls (say, 7 for an example) who may be in a restroom alone.
And, I'm not concerned with trans people posing a threat. I am concerned of the creep posing a threat to that young girl. It doesn't have to be rape - not sure why you jump to that conclusion.
I would like to think my young 7 yr old daughter has the choice to use a girls only restroom where a male entering would be a huge red flag to anyone and certainly not allowed.
Okay, so
what's your definition of "a male"? Are you saying that a visibly transgender woman should alarm your 7-year-old? What about a cis-passing transman, who looks like a man (see: Michael Hughes) but was assigned female at birth?
We're concerned about creeps NOW. If creeps would do things like this because of a law protecting trans people, creeps would do these things NOW.
Without the protection of bills like these, though, people like Michael Hughes can be forced into using women's rooms- not because they're creeps, but because they're trans- and will potentially end up in terrible legal situations because they'll end up being PERCEIVED as creep-men-in-women's restrooms when in fact they're doing what the law mandates.
Get the problem yet?
Nope.
Nope.
Call me old fashioned but a male to me has a penis.
Young males have already used this to creep on unsuspecting women, see above examples. Your worried about the Michael Hughes of the world, who are the minority. I am concerned about the young girls and hope they are given a chance to use a girls only restroom.
We'll never agree on this, but to each their own.
Okay!!!
a) you're old fashioned!
b) NOT "TO EACH THEIR OWN" WHEN MY RIGHTS ARE IN QUESTION.
c) you are still misinterpreting the article you posted above to suit your own opinion so nope bye
A man can no more declare
A man can no more declare himself to be a woman than a white man can declare himself to be black; science has taught us that both of those identities are written in our DNA. People have the right to privacy and should not be forced to share a bathroom with a person of the opposite sex.
While we can change how we act, we can’t change our biological identity; and public policy that ignores that truth can only lead to disaster.
"Science"?
So speaks another science-ignorant person. You really don't have the least idea what you're talking about, do you? You think everyone has exactly one X chromosome and one X or Y chromosome and that's what determines gender and that's it?
Please, your ignorance is really embarrassing to watch. Please stop.
"If objectively male persons
"If objectively male persons who are uncomfortable with their male bodies are permitted in women’s private areas, why shouldn’t all men be permitted in there? What difference does it make to women if the man in the stall next to them likes his anatomy or not?
Once objectively male persons are allowed in women’s restrooms, on what basis would any man be prohibited from entering a women’s restroom? Wouldn’t prohibiting men from accessing women’s restrooms because they’re men constitute discrimination based on sex, and wouldn’t prohibiting them from accessing women’s restrooms because they’re not gender-dysphoric constitute discrimination based on “gender identity”?"
Sigh...
Here ya go: biological sex != gender
are you my dad
because you sound like my dad.
I just rolled my eyeballs so
I just rolled my eyeballs so hard I sprained them. Between that and my day job, which involves responding to sexual assault of really vulnerable people (fucking irritating work, really, bc of how much it cuts into my time to spend thinking about myself), I'm going to be unable to respond to your comment. Have a great day continuing to be holier than thou (and obviously me!)!!
will do, thanks!
will do,
thanks!
Hey, Patricia?
Hey, Patricia?
...there are lesbians in the bathroom.
LESBIANS IN THE BATHROOM! LESBIANS IN THE BATHROOM! Grab up the girl children, clutch your pearls and RUN!!!
You don't understand my
You don't understand my comments. You are obviously getting too ahead of yourself.
I have no issues with trans, gay, straight, anything YOU want to label.
I have a problem with a young girl alone in a restroom and a creep using this law as an excuse to enter the bathroom, not for the intention of going to the bathroom, but for not nice reasons.
Calm down and read what I've written.
No
I understand them just fine. I also understand them to be the result of exceptionally tightly held ignorance and lack of a concept of statistical risk.
You also have a very weak grasp of genetics versus phenotypic reality when it comes to gender.
Hint: gender isn't even binary in nature.
Consider reading something about what you are talking about before offering us your ignorance as argument.
Fixed that for you
Creeps don't care about the law. So the only person being blocked from the restroom with your daughter is the law-abiding, trans-gendered M to F who would like to pee without getting harassed/assaulted in the men's room. And she is someone's daughter too. Might even be seven years old.
Oh, I don't understand?
Oh, I don't understand? Then break it down for me. You're worried about "a creep". What's "a creep"? You're only worried about men who want to rape girls, who somehow can't manage to do so anywhere other than a bathroom, and who are currently prevented from doing so by that magical sign that says "WOMEN"? Do you also worry that your daughter will be trampled to death by circus ponies on her way to school?
The solution seems to be simple. Tell your daughter to not use a public restroom. Period. If you're so worried, then your daughter is the one who should deal with the consequences of your fears. You don't get to deny a whole class of people access to a public accommodation because of your irrational fears. You go right ahead and teach your daughter to fear things that aren't real, and hope like hell that one day she won't be blindsided by a real problem (like a nice clean-cut heterosexual college boy date rapist) that she was ignoring because her optics were trained on your imaginary fears.
It's really quite laughable when an irrational person tells others to calm down.
A note to the fetishists out there
It's amazing how detailed some anons are getting with their descriptions of what they imagine trans people do in restrooms. If you're one of them, save your time - your note is never going to be published here. Yeah, I get to see them (well, the first 128 characters, at least, and that's usually enough to convince me not to read the whole thing), but I've gotten to the point in my life where I just do not care and I find hitting a checkbox to mark your note for deletion oddly soothing.
Thanks, Adam.
.
Yes indeed
Thanks from me too. There's enough vomit-inducing crap from non-anon bigots as it is.
You know who really can't behave themselves in restrooms?
Politicians.
That's who.
Maybe we should ban all male US and state senators from men's restrooms. There's a lot more evidence that they can't behave themselves than there is evidence of problems with transgender people.
Have to disagree
As part of a youth leadership conference, I got to hear a speech from a member of Congress from the floor of the US House of Representatives. The week I was there, I got a stomach bug and wasn't feeling well. While we're waiting for the speech, I asked to use a restroom and they led me to a men's room that said "Members of Congress only" on the door. I was allowed to go inside. It was nice (not crazy nice). While I was in there trying to compose myself, what I can only assume was a member of Congress came in and used the stall next to me. He didn't rape me.
So, it's not all politicians anyways.
The Governor may be genuinely concerned
about trans poop. There must be some family think tank report demonstrating that trans poop is different than non trans poop. Once he gets his poop straight or trans or whatever he'll decide.
So,
Probably the only Republican governor in the US who would give up an evening to speak at an LGBT event - and this is the thanks he gets? Disgusting. I am ashamed of my fellow gay people. It doesn't always have to be a fight; You don't always have to be a victim.
The vitriol there last night - and in the juvenile, obscenity-laced comments even here - are troubling for those of us in the gay community who know how laws get passed and are capable of thinking like rational adults.
You have no right
It's not your place to "be ashamed" on behalf of others acting as they see fit. You're not their mother, you didn't raise them, and it's really none of your business. Don't be so arrogant., and don't presume to speak for the gay community.
You Can't Be Serious
You have no right to tell someone else how he or she may or may not feel. I felt proud of Massachusetts' SJC after the Goodridge decision, even though I wasn't a judge. I imagine many people in North Carolina feel ashamed of their state legislature today, even though they aren't lawmakers. Are you going to tell them they have no right to feel that way?
Yes, in fact, I am
Yes, in fact, I am going to tell you that you have no place feeling "ashamed" for the actions of others over whom you have no authority or control. It's not your place. If they were your elected officials, sure, you could feel ashamed at the state of your government and what you haven't done to fix it. If it was your child, you can feel ashamed at your failure to bring that child up properly. But if you don't have any part of it, then sorry, neither pride nor shame are appropriate, and saying you feel "ashamed" of the action of autonomous adults is simply paternalistic tut-tutting on your part.
Wrong
Freedom of speech goes both ways. It also requires LISTENING. Even to those we don't agree with. Especially when it's an elected office holder who was hear to listen to us.
Noisy activists don't represent the LGBT community either. Just because they make the most noise doesn't mean everyone supported them. I was standing in the middle of the ball room that night. I saw how the activists commandeered prime real estate in front of the stage. In back of them were hundreds of other people listening to the governor. Maybe they agreed with him, maybe they didn't. They had a right to hear what he had to say and to speak to him after the event too.
I disagree Jo
It doesnt matter that Charlie may be the only Republican governor to speak at an LGBT event. What does matter is what he actually said and didn't say, and what he does and does not do.
Charlie so far has won over many Massachusetts voters with his smile, but he like all Republicans does not really believe in the rights of LGBTQ people, as evidenced by his evasive stance on the bill in question. But he thinks he can continue to fool people with his winning smile. So far it's worked.
Really?So he's only as good as this bill?
So this bill negates his stance on gay marriage and on having gays in his employ?
He didn't say he was against the bill, either.
Perhaps the typical liberal "Let's stick it to the man" mindset just doesn't apply here.
And why does the First Amendment only seem to apply to YOUR freedom of speech? It's a 2-way street.
You evidently don't comprehend the first amendment
First , there is nothing about a loud protest at a politician's speech that is counter to the first amendment. Please actually read and understand the first amendment.
Baker has been against the concept of bathroom rights for transsexuals since at least 2010 when he derisively called it the "bathroom bill" and dismissed the issue as an issue that he claimed voters didn't care about. His gay running mate Tisei disagreed with him, but Baker boldly stood for discrimination against transgender people. If he was a real leader, he would be leading by telling us how he feels. Instead, he wont talk about it, like a coward. He also stated he doesn't comment on pending legislation, which is a boldfaced lie. He's commented on plenty of pending legislation.
I am not as impressed as you are that Baker supports gay marriage and employment of gays. He should, he does, great. That's not the question at hand.
It's called civility
Listen to others and others will listen to you. That's how we start a dialogue.
That's not how it works bloke
Listen to Republicans and they will listen to you????
Not a chance that any Republican believes that. Charlie's approach and lack of leadership 36 was an insult to his audience and they responded appropriately.
Why should we accept a "dialog" on basic human rights?