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Walsh to racists: Stay out of Boston, but if you come anyway, we're ready for you
By adamg on Mon, 08/14/2017 - 4:21pm
Press conference ended with a prayer by the Rev. Laura Everett of the Mass. Council of Churches.
Mayor Walsh and Police Commissioner Evans said today they don't know if white supremacists and Nazis will actually show up on the Common on Saturday, but said they're taking no chances - Boston and State Police will be out in force to stop any nonsense.
At a City Hall conference also attended by Gov. Baker and a large contingent of other city and state officials, Walsh said the supposed group behind an alleged "free speech" rally on the Common has yet to ask the city for a permit to hold a demonstration. And while Boston supports the First Amendment, he made it clear he doesn't want a pro-separatist rally on the Common, especially not a week after Charlottesville.
"Boston doesn't welcome you here, Boston doesn't want you here, we reject your message," Walsh said. "We stand against hatred, we stand against racism, we stand against the terrorism that we all witnessed this weekend."
And, he continued, if the protesters do show up, "we will not tolerate incitements to violence." Evans said most fringe groups - including the Westboro Baptist Church - actually seek out a permit and welcome police oversight, because they realize they realize the police will work to protect them from the larger mass of protesters.
Evans added BPD will also work to prevent anarchists from stirring up trouble. Evans said uniformed officers will work to keep the protesters and counter protesters separate - through barriers and lines of police bikes if need be - and that additional "patrol platoons" from both BPD and State Police will be waiting in buses just in case.
Undercover officers will also be out in force, he said, adding that if violence does erupt, "we'll pull [the protesters] out of there and get them out of the area as quickly as we can," he said. "We're not going to tolerate anybody getting hurt."
He added, "it's pretty said we have to waste so many resources" on something like this, rather than "on the safety of the children of the city.'
"We will make sure that what happened in Virginia does not take place in Massachusetts," Baker said.
People opposed to the idea of Nazis demonstrating in Boston have already begun work on a march and counter-rally on the Common. Baker said he's thinking about attending what he said he preferred to call a "unity rally," in sympathy with the people of Charlottesville.
Unlike his party's titular leader, Baker immediately denounced the "act of terrorism" by the Virginia Nazis.
"What happened in Charlottesville, simply put, was an act of terrorism," he said, adding he rejects the idea that one's birthplace or skin color "makes them superior to their neighbors.
Baker did not directly answer a question of whether he thinks Trump should continue as leader of his party, saying he made that decision clear last fall - when he said he wouldn't vote for either major presidential candidate. Baker said he remains committed to a Republican Party of "freedom and opportunity and big-tent collaboration" and that blacks simply don't feel Trump is listening to them. He said he doesn't get why Trump took two days to specifically denounce Nazis and white supremacists.
Among those at the press conference was City Councilor Josh Zakim, the council's only Jewish member, who said he's gotten calls from people worried about an apparent change in climate.
"It's a scary time," he said. "Who would ever have imagined I'd be at a press conference about Nazis in 2017?" However, he remains confident that "Boston continues to be a safe city" for Jews.
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Comments
As long as Walsh doesn't
As long as Walsh doesn't order the Boston Police to stand down and Governor Baker doesn't order the State Police to stand down, as happened in Virginia and earlier in Berkeley, there shouldn't be a problem.
It is mind boggling criminal malfeasance that the political leadership in VA ordered cops to sit on their hands for hours while brown shirts engaged on open street battles with black shirts until a poor woman was murdered. How any of those officers can live with themselves for standing by while crimes escalated in front of them is beyond me. They should have all disobeyed orders and done their job to protect the public and restore order by quelling the riot instead of allowing it to escalate into public murder.
you ever heard
.. of Pax Centurion? The Boston Police Patrolmens Association's wildly, egregiously racist newsletter?
https://cleanupbppa.wordpress.com/pax-centurions-offensive-content/
.. of the officer in Springfield who commented on Facebook, when he saw that Heather Heyer had been run over in the street: "Hahahaha love this, maybe people shouldn't block roads"
http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/08/springfield_police_office...
I'll let you think about what side a disturbing number of police officers are on.
The reverend's salute
The reverend's salute technique could use some practice.
Except that she's
not saluting.
whoosh!
What, then. On a mission from God?
The BAND! Walsh should get
The BAND! Walsh should get the band back together.
Uhh
Pretty sure Marty Walsh said he doesn't want anyone protesting, period. You're too left-sided bro, get your facts straight. http://www.fox25boston.com/news/mayor-walsh-asks-free-speech-rally-to-no...
Pretty sure you weren't at the press conference
I was. Yes, Walsh said he doesn't want the protest, especially not so soon after the murder, but he also said he recognizes the First Amendment.
Of course you were there, you
Of course you were there, you have a sick infatuation with this "Nazi" topic. Anything else going on in Boston or is this all we are going to see from you?
Oh, sure, let's see what else is going on in Boston today
Oh, yeah, there's this charming story about the sick fuck who smashed a pane in the Holocaust Memorial with a rock.
Why do you keep coming back to the site if it annoys you so much?
For two reasons. The first
For two reasons. The first being I love seeing you squirm and using foul language when frustrated. The sometimes lack of professionalism and constant political biased entertains me. Also, you do have some good posts like the crime articles and Russian spy plane post. Overall it's a great site. Just lighten up a little.
Wow
wow
Sick infatuation?
Dear Anon,
Boy was your button pushed. If I was Jewish I might be especially concerned about the actions of people whose life's mission is to kill me and any other Jewish person they encounter. Would you say that Gay people who are concerned about religious leaders who call for the deaths of Gay people have a sick infatuation for wanting to know when that kind of person is in the city spreading their filth?
By the way Anon, are you paying for the servers and time that is put into reporting news on this site? I'm pretty sure you are not. So drop the arrogant whining.
Or is it something else that bothers you when anyone criticizes ideologies that are directed toward death such as Nazi ideology?
"Sick infatuation"
I'd like to extend my thanks to Adam and to all others with this "sick infatuation" -- and it is that indeed, an infatuation (or at least a heightened concern) with a sickness that is experiencing a major outbreak in our society. I am thankful for those who are vigilant.
Feel free to find a new news site
or start your own, if the content on this one offends you so much.
"get your facts straight"
they said, while linking to Fox25..
This isn't Loon Mountain
Does this mean there will also be a crackdown on participation in Pax Centurion?
Hard to fight Nazis when you have some on your payroll.
Are you calling BPD officers
Are you calling BPD officers Nazis?!
You're such a troll.
Have you actually read Pax Centurion?
It used to be available online, but I guess that, like their white-sheeted brethren-in-arms, they decided that too much publicity was a bad thing.
Archives are still online
bppa.org/pax/
most recent issue available is winter 2016/17
Here's how to tell the Nazis not to come back here
Lots of videos and photos of them looking bad, and the videos and photos of their opposition only look good. Don't let them create a single instance in which they're shown being oppressed. Just make this a trip that turns out to be a media net-negative for them.
Unfortunately, there's already some people talking elsewhere about provoking violent confrontations with the Nazis at this event, so that they have an excuse to hit a Nazi. Whatever their motivations for saying that, violence or other "oppression" of the Nazis is exactly what the Nazis want. Be on the lookout for this kind of saboteur/anarchist, and direct police to them.
Imagine a massive peaceful assembly of 100,000 local opposition showing up, and letting the idiots prancing around playing Nazi embarrass themselves. The politician-organizers among them won't be back.
Unfortunately, there's
You should tell the police.
Provocation
So ... do you think that the Nazis were peaceful and were just provoked?
Well, there's this bridge ... a great deal!
It would be great if thousands of people turned out to surround them ... but I don't think they would be marching around in circles. They weren't in Virginia.
Solutions
Snuggles is exactly right. This group/s motivation is to look as though we are attacking & interfering with their 1st Amendment rights. They want & need violence and confrontation. It helps with their recruiting & fundraising. Their oxygen is publicity. We, as reasonable people need to peacefully stay #BostonStrong with our overwhelming message of inclusion & tolerance. We need our peaceful presence denouncing them to choke off their messages of hate and be the story of the day.
Good in theory
What happens when they start smacking women in the face with baseball bats to get that martyrdom and attention?
In order to get a huge crowd, it would have to include our elders. If someone attacked my MIL or elderly SIL, or me, I'd have a very hard time with pacifism.
I think the point, here, is
I think the point, here, is to not be the one to *start* the violence. If they start swinging bats? Goddamn right I'll grab a bat and start swinging back, if it's needed to defend myself and others.
But you'll also not see me out there red-faced and shouting at them, spittle flying. Because they want that.
I think that's not the point
Fantasies about how the Nazis might start the violence, and how you'd respond, are still on the wrong track, and would give them what they want: images of them being under attack or in violent combat.
What they don't want is videos of them goose-stepping in front of a huge opposition crowd holding up signs with messages for the audience of the Nazis.
If any WW2 veterans show up in dress uniform, with signs about how America beat the Nazis once already, and do the soldier need to be called up out of retirement, help them move to the front row.
You're guessing, like everyone else
Theorizing about what the Nazis want is fun for purposes of discussion. It isn't a good basis for deciding on the best course of action.
I've heard a lot of statements in support of nonviolence in the past few days, and to be honest, none of them strike me as coming from people who really know what they're talking about. They read like a MLK Day sound bite, a rehash of dimly remembered, poorly understood things people heard in middle school from teachers who didn't really understand the subject themselves. When someone can talk about the strategic value of nonviolence instead of speaking in vague terms about what Nazis want (and you know this because...?) or platitudes about the moral high ground, then I'll be more inclined to listen. Meanwhile, I think it's a really bad idea to choose a course of action, or try to influence the activism of others, based on this kind of theorizing. You DON'T know what "they" want. You DON'T know how "they" will react. The outcome depends on forces that you don't control and aren't even aware of, and second-guessing is no good basis for activism. Please think this through and choose YOUR action or lack thereof, but understand that you don't have access to the magic anti-Nazi formula. There is none. Struggles against forces like this are won by a range of actions from people who understand that there is no magic bullet and who are in it for the long haul.
That's the whole problem swirly.....
Punching a nazi is a good thing right? but should we arrest that person who punches the nazi?
The only response to the nazis is to take photos of them, try to identify them, and let them do their thing, they have zero impact on our lives,, they don't own any businesses, they don't work for legitimate companies, they don't make any money period. They are losers who can't make it in society and this is their only way to get attention is to do these marches. Getting in their faces and "arguing" or "protesting" doesn't do anything except put everyone in danger. I wouldn't lose an ounce of sleep if some one just blew them all up or killed them all, but the fact that they really have as much power as those who believe Sandy Hook didn't happen tells me that ignoring them is the best strategy. Trump didn't get elected end because of these guys, they were voting against democrats no matter what.
That all being said, it would be cool if someone organized a counter protest that didn't involve some silly street shouting which never leads to anything productive. If you aren't going to face these people with violence, then why face them at all? (On the street)
Swing and a miss
We weren't talking about shouting matches.
I was noting that there were Nazis in Virginia walking around attacking people who were peacefully assembled.
Not a complete false equivalence, Pete, but certainly an "all sides are behaving badly" dilution of the reality: these are people who are looking for a fight and willing to start a fight. Why do you think they come dressed for Third Reich Reboot Cosplay?
Do you think for a moment that they aren't going to attack people to start the "race war" they want if there is a huge crowd of people staring at them?
that's why Gandhi was a genius
He had the media there to show the thugs hitting innocent people with baseball bats or equivalent. People were so outraged that he won his case.
If the Nazi's start hitting innocent people cell phone cameras should catch it on film and the Police should arrest them.
MLK, too
People actually trained in "non-reaction".
But you can't train 100K people overnight.
I like the idea of a unity rally like Baker proposed ... but the reality is that there are hateful people who do want to use violence to start something.
That was part of my question swirly....
Is violence against nazis a bad thing? I don't think it necessarily is.
Besides "bad", there's the whole "legal" here
You know the finer points of the law much better than I do, but I think legality is one of the general issues.
I'm also concerned about what happens when you have lots of ordinary people having fantasies about beating up Nazis (including legal loopholes), and they feel encouraged about the social acceptability of this, and a small number of them will act out. Does that kind of thinking sound familiar.
We ordinary people should check our emotions, not turn into the enemy.
Can you have a demonstration
without a permit, then? It sounds like the Nazis aren't planning to get a permit, but then it also sounds like the city expects they'll have a demo anyway. And the counter-demo? Will it have a permit? For both sides, if the law says you need a permit, then all those planning to demonstrate on any side should be required to get one. This discussion seems a little muddy or confused.
I am not the ACLU ...
Or even a lawyer, but I'll go out on a limb anyway and say that, no, you can't require a permit to let somebody exercise their First Amendment rights. Both Walsh and Evans sure seemed to recognize that during their comments today.
What a permit gets you is review by the police and other relevant officials to ensure the safety of the event. As Evans said, police will basically provide escorts to ensure marchers can go down streets without worrying about getting run over. I've watched BPD do that repeatedly, during Occupy Boston, the marches a couple of years ago by high-school kids protesting BPS budget cuts, dueling pro-Palestinian/pro-Israel marches, the Women's March, etc., etc. And as Evans said, the Westboro Baptist Church won't come to Boston at all without assurance of police review - and protection during their jerk-off campaigns.
Depends
It depends on what your "demonstration" consists of. People have the right to assemble on the Common, but they can't have a PA system (and probably some other things) or march in the streets without a permit.
Things got interesting.
There was a permit application according to one of the organizers.
https://twitter.com/Gavin_McInnes/status/897229596470501376
Probably bullshit
That's been called out as bullshit, given that all useful information has been elided.
(Note that there IS a permitted event on the Common on that same day - a cosplay group. Perhaps this is a screenshot of their permit)
The summer cosplay picnic
The summer cosplay picnic always gets a permit because there's a number of younger teens, etc, that come, and it's safer to be able to chase possible weirdos off if needed. so it's quite possible that's their permit.
Unfortunately because of the timing of this protest the cosplay picnic organizers decided to postpone the event, regardless of their permitted space, for safety.
UGH
i hate that a co-founder of one of my favorite magazines and now media outlets (ousted btw) is such a raging, racist tool.
As a minority police officer,
As a minority police officer, my thoughts have been all over the place with regards to this. On the one hand, yeah fuck Nazis and their horrific, vile rhetoric. It's sad that this is 2017 America and our President has emboldened these lunatic, fringe groups to come out of the shadows.
At the same time though, I truly believe we are treading dangerously close to limiting the rights of freedom of speech and as police officers, that would set a dangerous precedent. Believe me, I don't want to be out there Saturday having to protect a white militant neo-nazi who is espousing hate against my culture just because of the color of my skin. But that's my job, and I would have to do it because of the oath I took, something I take seriously. I don't have the luxury of siting this one out because I don't agree with them.
The BLM incident in Dallas also keeps coming into my thoughts. That was a peaceful protest against the police whose jobs it was to protect the people that were protesting against them. And one unhinged terrorist took it upon himself to murder five innocent people. Both incidents are eerily similar, but I have seen little comparison between them in the media.
I guess the only clear thing here is that our President has proved himself time and time again to be woefully inadequate to hold his office, and now people, including cops, are dying because of it.
You are classy and thoughtful.
Keep being awesome.
And
Keep posting, please. We need a diversity of perspectives from the ranks of active law enforcement.
What?
The ACLU won the right for the fracist fuckwits to march in Charlottesville.
Neither Mayor Walsh nor anybody has said they won't allow the racist fuckwits to gather on the Common.
Where's the dangerous closeness, exactly?
I'll come out of exile for this one
I'll even read it over a few times before posting.
Emotions are understandably raw, but they're raw all around and that makes it all the more important to make an effort to be the adult in the room. That's statement one, whose immediate corollary is that despite every inner urge, elected officials and people with a soapbox (that's everyone these days, but media more so) should squelch the urge to light into anyone not of their tribe with a broad brush. Count to ten before hitting send. That sort of thing. That includes adding maybe-could-be-calls-to-arms like "so what are we to do about it?" to posts on widely-read websites.
The other statement that might seem contradictory at first, but isn't and isn't meant to be, is that because clearheadedness is at a premium, it is important to draw the correct lessons from the facts while they're still fresh and before they get crowded out by the memory of powerful emotions. In this case, a (not the) hard truth about Charlottesville is that there's plenty of blame to go around.
The gut reaction (and a correct one, of course) is that it's the neo-Nazis' fault for being half the brawlers and all of the murderers. A second gut reaction, and also a correct reaction, is that it's the Antifa's fault for being the other half of the brawlers and the Charlottesville PD's fault for not working harder at keeping them separated, and maybe even the city council's fault for deciding the take down the statue of General Lee and putting fuel on the fire. It's easy to stop at the first one if you lean left and it's easy to dwell on the second one if you don't.
But it doesn't end there. While it is easily the fault of every single bigot with a soapbox for stirring up a Nazi riot, it's also the fault of the SJW left and their cheerleaders in the mainstream press for pounding the drumbeat of the supposed decline of the white American over the past decade and a half with what I honestly took to be a kind of anticipatory glee. For the exact same reason that it's poison to tell a young black kid that this country wasn't made for him and he's got no hope of making it by the sweat of his brow, for the exact same reason that it's poison to tell a young Muslim kid that he'll never be accepted as a full member of society no matter how hard he tries, and for the exact same reason that it's poison to tell a young girl that all the high-paying tech jobs aren't for her because she'll be surrounded by gropers and sexists and has to give up on motherhood to get ahead, it's poison to tell a young white kid that whatever religion he might believe in is passé, that whatever his parents and grandparents did for a living is the past, or gone to China and not coming back or is killing the planet, or is somehow otherwise immoral, and by the way, as a white man, his time is fading and this country isn't for him anymore.
That's the sort of thing I've been reading in the newspapers and on the internet for a decade-plus, and maybe twenty years ago when the echo chambers that the New York Times and the Washington Post and the Boston Globe catered to were just their local readership, that was nasty but ultimately harmless. Today, words travel farther and some kid on Ohio with a crisis of morality can read not just about how the International Jew is to blame for everything, but he can also read about how everyone on the coasts thinks he and all he knows are rubes and dimwits and racists for clinging to their guns and religion. Tell me I've just fallen of the turnip truck all you like, but I think a big-M Media and small-M media climate that hammers away at an at-risk segment of the population like that is not a positive thing.
Just to clarify, whenever I take issue with any of you folks for man-bashing or white-bashing or capitalism-bashing, it's not just because I'm annoyed. Yeah, I'm annoyed, but like many of the posters here, I'm comfortably middle class and I, my wife, and my future children will all land on our feet just fine even if tomorrow's America is a little browner or greener or bluer than today's. What I really take issue with is the attitude that it's not only OK to think of a large swathe of your countrymen and women as undesirable or mentally deficient but that it's also good and righteous to throw it into their faces at every opportunity. I don't believe in political violence any more than the next man, but I don't pretend everyone is just as in control of their baser impulses as I am and aspire to be, nor do I pretend that the triple evils of envy, rage, and blood-lust don't prowl this world waiting for a chance to take root.
You have to be careful with your words. Freedom to speak implies the responsibility to speak civilly. That doesn't mean you have to publicly and loudly fire the James Damores of the world when they say something you disagree with, it doesn't mean you can boot Stormfront off your hosting service because they crossed some imaginary line, and it doesn't mean the Mayor and Police Commissioner of Boston can sprinkle their promises of preparation with hints at how unwelcome specific people are in the city.
Freedom to speak means you shouldn't put people down, and that you shouldn't put people down and then use the rage stoked in the least stable of them as an excuse to put people down harder. That's not a country you want to live in. You don't have to have a particularly high opinion of President Trump, but you should nevertheless take to heart what he said today:
So we have to lie to the
So we have to lie to the little Braxxtons and Kaydens otherwise they'll become nazis? We have to pretend coal doesn't kill people, Christianity is as relevant as ever and that they deserve and will get a good paying factory job even though they dropped out of high school and those jobs don't exist here anymore? No thanks. If someone becomes a white supremacist that is all on them.
You should refrain from antagonizing people
.
only solution is to turn the other cheek
You are right that the news now operates purely as weapons for us to use against each other. Politics now controls do much money and meaning in our lives, and there can be only one winner. It's inevitable that each side will come to resemble the other in a desperate struggle to win. The object of the contest recedes, and the struggle becomes the obsession. Reasoning your way out of it is futile.
Also futile is deciding who started what, who is worse -- there are always reasons for our actions.
They desire your things because you desire them. You desire their things because their desire inflames you. The solution is simple.
The trouble with simply turning the other cheek is that
all too often, people who do turn the other cheek really get their heads clobbered. It's been that way for quite some time.
you would never get hit in the first place
The solution is simple but radical if you think it out.
I disagree, EM Painter.
This:
is not necessarily and/or always true.
Oh please. Feelings are not
Oh please. Feelings are not justifiably "raw all around." Not nazis died this weekend. Butt hurt is not the same as centuries of institutionalized racism. And don't quote that orange fuck on his two day delayed bs message. You and he should crawl right back under your rocks and come to terms with your utter irrelevance.
What's Wrong With You
Get over yourself. Trying to be all reasonable and all. I mean, really, just get over yourself.
Just a few other comments.
>>"Walsh said the supposed group behind an alleged "free speech" rally on the Common has yet to ask the city for a permit to hold a demonstration"
Because you don't actually need government permission to exercise your First Amendment rights, particularly in an historically public forum like the Boston Common, for fuck's sake. But the group in Charlottesville had a permit, after going to court, with the support of the ACLU, they most certainly did have "permission," even if they didn't need it.
>>"And while Boston supports the First Amendment, he made it clear he doesn't want a pro-separatist rally on the Common, especially not a week after Charlottesville."
Not sure what "pro-separatist" means but, just how, does "Boston" allegedly "support[]" the First Amendment here? It seems that Boston supports the First Amendment when, you know, the mayor agrees with what you happen to be saying. Otherwise, you can't/shouldn't have a rally on the Boston Common.
>>"Evans said uniformed officers will work to keep the protesters and counter protesters separate"
Something the police in Charlottesville apparently made no attempt to do, so I guess that's a plus.
"[W]e will not tolerate incitements to violence." Meaning what? Who's inciting whom, and vice versa?
>>He added, "it's pretty [sad] we have to waste so many resources" on something like this, rather than "on the safety of the children of the city.'
Yes, it's so, so sad that the City can't simply deny people their constitutional rights to assemble and petition for redress of their grievances, just because other people other things are more important.
While we're at it, what exactly is the "act of terrorism" that we're supposed to be denouncing? It it's the car crash thing, there seems to be a lot of facts that seem to be up in the air. Even if it is, it seems to be an isolated incident that needs to be connected to other things.
--gpm
So you're one of those
People that believes the car wasn't ramming into counter-protestors on purpose? That the coward who did it wasn't a Nazi?
Read up. You're wrong.
A woman DIED. Nineteen injured. Respect that and respect them. Don't think the "facts are up in the air." There's no "alternative facts" here. It happened and don't deny it.
Facts are hard
1. You do if you intend to use a sound system or march in the streets. Wanna bet they planned to just talk in calm reasonable voices?
2. They claim to have applied for a permit.
Brilliant Response
Anyone remember the Phelps-a-thons? Where people pledged money for every minute they were hateful in a particular venue?
This Bavarian town, faced with neo-nazis marching, scaled it all up and rolled out the welcome mats to get them to walk further. They turned it into an unintentional charity walk to support an organization that deprograms Nazis: https://www.good.is/articles/neo-nazis-tricked
Haiku for Alt-Neo-Nazis
Neo nazi jerks
No one wants you in Boston
Basement dwelling pricks
Best Response
Let them in. Let them speak. Surround them with police. Have barriers further out so NOBODY else can be anywhere in the vicinity.
Have all police wearing body cams, recording every moment.
If they attack anyone, they will be attacking the police. They can try to make profit from that, but there are lots more people who are sympathetic to the police than they are to fucking Nazis.
The fucking Nazis feed on getting others involved in their bullshit. The simplest way to defeat them is to marginalize them. As soon as you even acknowledge them, they've had a measure of victory. Have the police deal with them and everybody else stand down. That's how you defeat them.
Suldog
http://jimsuldog.blogspot.com