The MBTA riders deserve this and more. This is what happens when you remove the train attendant (operates the doors in the rear half from the middle car) from the trains to save a few bucks. A train attendant could also have stopped the runaway Red Line train out of Braintree.
People scream about raised fares so the T reduces the workforce. Accidents happen and the public cries foul. Please decide which way you want it. Sites like this one only feed in to this self contradiction with double sided reporting.
Oh. please. We're talking about this accident happening on the Green Line. Green Line trolleys have a motorman in the front car, and an attendant in the following car. So what does the removal of the attendant from Red Line cars have to do with this scenario?
I had something similar happen to me a few years ago (2010-2012, I think.)
The door somehow managed to nick me as I was boarding the train. It was quite forceful and hurt pretty badly, and left a good bruise. The driver didn't even bother to apologize that he'd closed the door on someone who was in the middle of boarding the train. Train wasn't particularly crowded either: it's not like I was trying to cram in, or sneak in, or do anything irregular.
I sent a very detailed note to the MBTA via their online complaint form and received zero response.
I've had Green, orange, and red line doors close on various limbs over the years and never been injured, because, just like elevator doors, they're designed not to injure. If this girl was injured by the door, then some freak thing happened here, and it's a more complicated problem than just a callous green line operator.
designed to automatically re-open like elevator doors. At best, provided sufficient force is applied AND the operator doesn't still have his finger on the "CLOSE" button, they are supposed to reopen or at least stop in a partially closed position (this was the standard default operation for subway and streetcar doors since the Independent Subway was opened in New York City). However, the usual mode is that they will continue to attempt to close - as I've witnessed on countless occasions. When the doors fail to completely or properly close, the door interlock will not release. This is the safety mechanism that prevents the operator from moving the train with an open door.
What most people perceive as the doors automatically re-opening is actually the operator manually recycling the doors to clear the door interlocks. Note that a common failure mode on Green Line streetcars is for the door interlocks to not disengage even though the doors are completely closed.
In this case, whether the door was properly operating or not is largely irrelevant. As this was a surface stop, the girl and her mother should have been leaving the train through the door directly opposite the operator's position (i.e. in plain sight of the operator). If the operator disregarded the rules and opened all the doors, that's still on the operator to properly check before closing the doors.
Historical note - The original plug doors on the Boeing LRVs - the ones that had 800 moving parts per pair of doors - were indeed designed, like elevator doors, to completely reopen if they detected an obstruction when closing, without any force or action required by a person. Problem was that, most of the time, they would immediately close again once they opened. Sometimes, they would cycle through multiple openings and closings, even when the obstruction was removed, before finally closing for good - always thought there was the makings of a Monty Python-style humor skit in that.
Incorrect. If there is force applied to the door, it is designed to reopen unless the operator is holding down the close door button. Last and only cars operated that still close regardless are the PCCs.
If there is force applied to the door, it is designed to reopen unless the operator is holding down the close door button.
Seems to me that a safety system that requires a given level of force to re-open the doors, as opposed to being triggered by an obstruction in the door itself, and which can easily (and possibly unknowingly) be defeated by a routine and normal action of the operator (closing the doors), probably isn't a very good safety system. At the very least, the doors re-opening only after a deliberate application of force has been made is not a truly automatic action.
300lbs neckbeards and Equinox muscle freaks do not qualify as standard bearers for whether a piece of machinery can be injurious to a human, especially to little kids.
The T is removing the green line attendants within the next 6 months, pending negotiations with their union. Sorry, I left that out of my original post.
The doors have never closed on me, but I knew a woman who got caught in closing doors while she was pregnant, and she miscarried. Maybe she had other health issues, maybe it was just a freak accident, but it was tragic all the same.
You mean like everything else that keeps happening with this decrepit transit system. What the equipment does "by design" and what the T's equipment does is not the same...
Comments
Marty Walsh sez...
"They shouldn't have hit the train car with an umbrella. It's just wrong."
Marty?
What does the mayor have to do with a kids arm stuck in a state transportation car?
Marty
He's reserving judgment about encounters between umbrellas and moving vehicles. You had to be there.
The MBTA riders deserve this
The MBTA riders deserve this and more. This is what happens when you remove the train attendant (operates the doors in the rear half from the middle car) from the trains to save a few bucks. A train attendant could also have stopped the runaway Red Line train out of Braintree.
People scream about raised fares so the T reduces the workforce. Accidents happen and the public cries foul. Please decide which way you want it. Sites like this one only feed in to this self contradiction with double sided reporting.
That reminds me.....
There's posters all over the T regarding the upcoming Fare increases lol
And most of them are in advertising slots
So much for Baker's
pennypinching lemmingsfiscal "control" board attempting to maximize non-fare revenue.The Green Line still has just
The Green Line still has just as many train attendants as it's had since the current style of trolleys began service in 1976: one per car.
Oh. please. We're talking
Oh. please. We're talking about this accident happening on the Green Line. Green Line trolleys have a motorman in the front car, and an attendant in the following car. So what does the removal of the attendant from Red Line cars have to do with this scenario?
A little dramatic, no? Also,
A little dramatic, no? Also, wouldn't the doors reopen if enough pressure prevents them from fully closing?
No
I had something similar happen to me a few years ago (2010-2012, I think.)
The door somehow managed to nick me as I was boarding the train. It was quite forceful and hurt pretty badly, and left a good bruise. The driver didn't even bother to apologize that he'd closed the door on someone who was in the middle of boarding the train. Train wasn't particularly crowded either: it's not like I was trying to cram in, or sneak in, or do anything irregular.
I sent a very detailed note to the MBTA via their online complaint form and received zero response.
No, not a little dramatic
The girl had torn ligaments and muscle. The mother also has a valid concern about her daughter possibly being dragged.
I've had Green, orange, and
I've had Green, orange, and red line doors close on various limbs over the years and never been injured, because, just like elevator doors, they're designed not to injure. If this girl was injured by the door, then some freak thing happened here, and it's a more complicated problem than just a callous green line operator.
Not true for the Red Line
at least. "Door does not recycle"
Yeah, let's just pile on the door
"Door lets the water run while brushing its teeth"
"Door does not give enough to charity."
"Door does not floss."
Cool story, bro.
Cool story, bro.
The doors on Green Line streetcars are NOT
designed to automatically re-open like elevator doors. At best, provided sufficient force is applied AND the operator doesn't still have his finger on the "CLOSE" button, they are supposed to reopen or at least stop in a partially closed position (this was the standard default operation for subway and streetcar doors since the Independent Subway was opened in New York City). However, the usual mode is that they will continue to attempt to close - as I've witnessed on countless occasions. When the doors fail to completely or properly close, the door interlock will not release. This is the safety mechanism that prevents the operator from moving the train with an open door.
What most people perceive as the doors automatically re-opening is actually the operator manually recycling the doors to clear the door interlocks. Note that a common failure mode on Green Line streetcars is for the door interlocks to not disengage even though the doors are completely closed.
In this case, whether the door was properly operating or not is largely irrelevant. As this was a surface stop, the girl and her mother should have been leaving the train through the door directly opposite the operator's position (i.e. in plain sight of the operator). If the operator disregarded the rules and opened all the doors, that's still on the operator to properly check before closing the doors.
Historical note - The original plug doors on the Boeing LRVs - the ones that had 800 moving parts per pair of doors - were indeed designed, like elevator doors, to completely reopen if they detected an obstruction when closing, without any force or action required by a person. Problem was that, most of the time, they would immediately close again once they opened. Sometimes, they would cycle through multiple openings and closings, even when the obstruction was removed, before finally closing for good - always thought there was the makings of a Monty Python-style humor skit in that.
Incorrect. If there is force
Incorrect. If there is force applied to the door, it is designed to reopen unless the operator is holding down the close door button. Last and only cars operated that still close regardless are the PCCs.
If there is force applied to
Seems to me that a safety system that requires a given level of force to re-open the doors, as opposed to being triggered by an obstruction in the door itself, and which can easily (and possibly unknowingly) be defeated by a routine and normal action of the operator (closing the doors), probably isn't a very good safety system. At the very least, the doors re-opening only after a deliberate application of force has been made is not a truly automatic action.
You have MRI vision?
Her injuries were documented.
FYI
300lbs neckbeards and Equinox muscle freaks do not qualify as standard bearers for whether a piece of machinery can be injurious to a human, especially to little kids.
The T is removing the green
The T is removing the green line attendants within the next 6 months, pending negotiations with their union. Sorry, I left that out of my original post.
Cite?
Cite?
I don't think it's possible for the front operator to close the rear car's doors.
idk
The doors have never closed on me, but I knew a woman who got caught in closing doors while she was pregnant, and she miscarried. Maybe she had other health issues, maybe it was just a freak accident, but it was tragic all the same.
... then some freak thing
You mean like everything else that keeps happening with this decrepit transit system. What the equipment does "by design" and what the T's equipment does is not the same...
A Sprain is not torn
A Sprain is not torn ligaments and muscle!
Also, wouldn't the doors
Are we talking about what they do by design, or what the decrepit equipment the T has actually does? Because one is not the other.